No SAT Subjects and APs all in 4... Would sending this hurt my application?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Yale University
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Hi, everyone. This forum has been a huge help in building my application, and I would like to thank you all in advance.

Like I said, right now I am constructing my application. I am going to apply Yale via SCEA, and my SAT Reasoning (old SAT) scores are less than mediocre in CC standard as well as Yale standard. So I decided to take ACT and report it instead. (33-34 ish)

However, the problem is that I have only one subject score (Math Level II, 770) and that it is not so perfect especially in the context that I am Asian. I was originally going to take another subject in June, but for some inexplicable reasons, I couldn’t.

Yale undergrad admissions page states that:
“SAT Subject Tests are recommended but not required. Applicants who do not take SAT Subject Tests will not be disadvantaged in the application process. We will consider your application on the basis of the other testing, and all the other information, that we receive with your application. You may wish to consider whether there are particular areas of academic strength you would like to demonstrate to the Admissions Committee. Subject Tests can be one way to convey that strength.”

According to this, my application or my chance wouldn’t hurt. Or would it? Because I am a middle class, international, Asian, and had chances to take SAT IIs but didn’t, would adcoms look at me as a procrastinating, half-ass, B class excellent kid hailing from the most score inflated country from the Far East?

I am not sure what to do. Should I send whatever I have (ML2, 770) or should I not send it at all? Or, should I take another SAT II in November (which I really don’t feel doing well) and update the adcom?

Also, in college admissions in general, not having any SAT II scores or having a mediocre score hurts, right? Other colleges that I plan to apply in RD say they don’t require SAT IIs if I report ACT scores. But I see most of the applicants send both. Ugh.

This whole application process has been driving me nuts. I guess that showed in my the writing. I’m sorry about that.

Anyways, thank you again. I will be expecting harsh replies.

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Oh, I didn’t mention about APs, right? I have four APs, all of them in 4. One of my friend said it would be better to not report those strategically thinking. But if I don’t, my testing section would seem so empty with only one single take ACT score on it… Thanks!

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Don’t put so much pressure on yourself. I’d send the ACT and SAT2s. Your 33-34 will clearly make you eligible academically. the APs and such won’t be a factor. It’ll be the other portions that make/break you. You already know the odds are steep. You want to wow them with your essay and LORs. Everything else is done (besides continuing to excel in your classes, of course).

Also, make sure you’re targeting a wide swath of other schools too. You’re clearly destined for collegiate success. Whether it’s Yale or not won’t affect that. Best of luck to you

4

What T26E4 said, but please also work on the following mindset and make sure it doesn’t leak into your essays:

You are not your demographic. At your age, it’s not unusual to think so, but you’re not.

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Oh, and I agree with your friend about the APs. Many disagree with me, but I think self-reporting all 4s is not a good strategy. YMMV.

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And I’m one of those that disagree. A 4 is still a very good score. However, everyone who posts here, including myself and @ixnaybob , is posting an opinion. None of us have the magic crystal ball into Yale admissions.

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What’s with the idea 770 isn’t good because you’re Asian? It always startles me how kids pick and choose the advice they listen to. That score is fine. If you want a STEM major and are applying to fiercely competitive schools, you have to strut what you can.

But the bit about “procrastinating, half-ass, B class” kid- what does that mean? Your grades aren’t up to par?

From a nation that sends lots of apps to a tippy top, sure, the 4’s aren’t as strong as 5’s. But you have to understand the whole of what Yale really looks for. It’s not as simple as “nice kid,” having some passions or your teachers love you. You know what Yale will look for? First hand, by reading up on what they say, not someone else’s info, anecdotes or other hearsay?

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I strongly disagree. Yale awards ‘acceleration credit’ to students for scores of 4 or 5 on most AP exams: http://yalecollege.yale.edu/new-students/class-2019/academic-information/acceleration/table-acceleration-credit. If Yale awards ‘acceleration credit’ for an AP score of 4, they obviously think a 4 is a ‘good’ score, so why wouldn’t you report it?

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@gibby, as I said, I know that people disagree on this. I don’t know that Yale considers a 4 a good score; they consider it a sufficient score to award credit. I’m obviously exaggerating to make a point, but a score sufficient to get a private pilot’s license might not be deemed noteworthy when applying to be an astronaut.

To answer OP’s question conscientiously, I should have asked what the AP courses were. A 4 in Bio should be viewed differently than a 4 in Psych.

I am not trying to be discouraging to OP, much the contrary. OP should emphasize the positive (ACT) and avoid mentioning whatever is average or below average (presumably the SAT, although we don’t know the scores). Even reporting the M2 score is far from a no-brainer (770 = 84th percentile, globally), but I agree it should be reported.

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@IxnayBob: We obviously disagree on this issue. @ThomasKMJ: I’ve posted the below several times in regards to AP self-reporting and I stand by every word.

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@gibby, I cannot easily check, but my recollection is that DS simply put that he was a National AP Scholar (scores of 4 or better on 8 or more AP tests). I don’t recall him itemizing the scores, but perhaps he did.

The way that you describe it above makes me want to change my recommendation to OP. OP: submit the AP scores.

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FWIW, I did not apply to Yale, but did apply to peer schools; I itemized the scores.

Wow, this might be the first time in the history of CC that opinion was changed. :slight_smile:

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Haha, @skieurope, today is the day! On the Yale Parents thread today, I admitted a factual error (DS had in fact worn a suit to his interview rather than a blazer as I thought). Here I deferred to Gibby’s greater experience re AP. What’s next? Playing Pokemon Go? :slight_smile:

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Ooh, it seems like I have made some of you to spit some fires. Anyways, thanks, everyone! Those replies are truly invaluable to me.

Because most of you encouraged me to do so, I guess I will have to report my AP scores. I understand that this whole thing is a crapshoot, and therefore, I think it would be better to play it honest and simple… to not regret after all. I will be who I am, though I do realize that this might hurt me. Maybe it won’t. Who knows?

Regarding my SAT II score, I am sure I can do better in November if I retake my Math Level 2. However, I am worried this might make me look score obsessive as only 300 at maximum will rise (though 770 and 800 sound vastly different). I think I can take World History that day, too. So, should I take those in November and update the adcom, or should I focus on my RD apps and other things instead studying to take SAT IIs? Gotta calculate the opportunity cost, right? :slight_smile:

Again, thanks for the kind pieces of advice. I really appreciate your help.

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If you’ve evaluated the oppy cost and decide to retake in November, do so. By the time you get your scores though, I’m not sure that notifying the adcom will have any effect, but then as I’ve said above, I don’t think the jump in score would improve your app anyway.

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Just bear in mind that scores are not the final determination. This will be intensely holistic and the concern is that kids who fuss over bringing, eg, a 770 up, may be missing the rest of what a tippy top is looking for- partly, the rest of your record and partly, how you present yourself in the app and any supps. Any kid who thinks he wants H or its sisters should be looking deeper than stats, should know.

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@skieurope and @lookingforward, thank you both. I’ll keep in mind that the process will be holistic and obsessing at 30 points rise would not be the smartest move. I guess I should focus on constructing my app at this point. Again, thanks!

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I strongly recommend not sending the 4s. I’m a counselor at one of the top private international schools in the “Far East.” PM me if you have any question. The competition is extremely tense these days amongst international & Asian students.

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My child sent/reported all scores for all standardized testing, including APs of 3 and 4 and ACT and SAT sub/section scores that would make CC readers cringe. She also took the standardized tests way too many times according to CC logic. This child chose to disclose it all and was admitted. Admission to Yale truly is about far more than test scores. Holding back information felt dishonest and the thought was if Yale chose to deny based on the testing profile, it wasn’t the right place to be.

***This admitted student is not a legacy, athlete, or URM.

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@college4many same here… Grades are a starting point and not the determining factor. She took her SAT’s 3 times because she has ocd and needed a baseline as a junior to feel comfortable taking again as a senior. Ivy worthy scores but was not top in class but #4. No advantages, public school and a cheerleader of all things (gasp). She wasn’t even a NM finalist because she obsessed on each answer and didn’t finish the test. But the grades and scores only bring you to the starting gate. The real race begins after that and it will all boil down to who you are, what makes you stand out, how will you contribute to the community of Yale and how can Yale help you make a splash in the world. Approach it that way and you will do better than a person striving for perfection before you even get there. At an informational meeting we heard someone say something along the lines of,“Yale doesn’t look for perfect students with perfect grades,scores, essays and background. There are plenty of other schools that look for that. They tend to fill the class with incredible students don’t necessarily know how amazing they are.”

My advice to the OP is to be your best, send your scores and don’t compare yourself to others. Its not others that will be evaluated in your file. It will be just you and what you can offer the world through Yale. Let just your own self shine in your application. If you don’t match up with what they want, it will be about so much more than any AP scores you may or may not have sent.