<p>I need advice. My D has not yet chosen her school and it's making both of us crazy. She wants desperately to go to NYU, but got a horrible financial aid package and would need to take out at least $20,000 loans each year. She has a great scholarship to UVM, but it's reputation for drinking and drugs has totally turned her off, as well as its location. I know $-wise, UVM is the no-brainer, but in my heart I know that NYU is a much better place for her. She's a great student and has been accepted into the honors program for each school. Please give me your thoughts.</p>
<p>We are in a somewhat similar situation. DD is deciding between B Arch at RPI, and BA at Lehigh. RPI gave significant merit aid, Lehigh means huge loans. RPI has superior Arch program (though Lehigh is revamping theirs) and good atmosphere for nerdy quirky kid like my D, but B Arch means not enough credits for all the liberal arts she wants to take, and she is afraid intensity of arch program means not enough time for extra currics. The indecision is nerve wracking.</p>
<p>In our case, the drinking issue goes the other way though, as Lehigh is more known for partying (though apparently the Univ has really cracked down on at least the more overt underage drinking in the last few years, and the campus seems to be becoming more serious)</p>
<p>Has NYU changed? I thought it used to be known for drugs?</p>
<p>which can you afford most?</p>
<p>I would tell her what you have said here. You would have to take out $20,000 a year in loans to make NYU work . If she is worried about drinking and drugs at UVM , she does have control over who she associates with. Good luck with the decision!</p>
<p>to follow up</p>
<p>What we have to constantly remember, is, its not no win, but no lose. </p>
<p>for my DD - at RPI she will get an excellent education, and will get SOME liberal arts, if not as much exploration as she’d like. And she will have to put up with distance (we are in virginia) and the cold, but she can handle that. She will be set for her career in many ways. I think she will love it.</p>
<p>At Lehigh, she will also get a great education - she will still need a Masters to go on in Arch, and will start off 120 k or so in debt, but Lehigh is good at making sure their grads don’t leave unemployed, and she will probably do well enough to get in a good Masters program. She will just have to live more frugally in her 20’s. </p>
<p>Can your daughter get a good education at UVM? Can she face starting life with lots of student loans? She too may have a win win choice.</p>
<p>Thanks for the input. In my heart, I know what the decision has to be. It just makes me sad that she can’t go to her dream school since she’s been such a great, hardworking kid. I kind of assumed there were plenty of drugs at NYU too, although I hadn’t actually heard that anywhere. I don’t think the drugs are the biggest issue. That just seems to be what keeps coming up. Anyway, I know it should be UVM, but being a parent isn’t all that fun sometimes! :)</p>
<p>or another way, which SHE can afford most? Unless parents have promised 100% of cost, or have promised to sign their name to 100% of her loan, then what she can afford is the better question. If parents have made such a promise, then I urge them to keep their promise, even if it hurts. If they haven’t made such an extravagant promise, then offer what they can, and let the student make up the difference or go elsewhere. Parents choose what gift they can give, and then student chooses her college and student chooses her debt. Student cannot choose parental debt.</p>
<p>I’m not sure why your situation comes down to just those 2 schools- one that she “desperately wants to go to”, the other has “totally turned her off”.
If the second one was so bad, why did she apply?
Are there no others that are still in the running? If not, why not?
perhaps you can recommend that she not run with the “drug crowd”.
Student has earned an opportunity to attend her dream school; not a free pass to attend her dream school. It may be she is unable to take advantage of the opportunity as presented. That is sad, but it happens all the time. </p>
<p>Sometimes we want a Cadillac, but can only afford a Chevy. Or better put, sometimes we want our kid to have a Cadillac, but the kid can only afford a Chevy.
Remember the general rule of thumb: total undergrad college debt needs to be equal or less than a real-life expectation of first yr salary.</p>
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<p>No, it’s not. But I don’t think letting an 18 year old saddle themselves with 80K in loans is fair to the kid. We refused to do that when the merit aid was not what our son was hoping for from a few of the schools he applied too. But he loves the school he is going too, so our situation was much easier than yours. </p>
<p>Just to throw it out there…has she considered a gap year and applying to some other schools? There are some schools still taking applications and then there is rolling admissions as well. Sometimes the first try just doesn’t work out.</p>
<p>Brooklynborndad, Hope your daughter does okay coming out of school with 120,000 in debt(if that is what I am reading correctly). That is an awful lot of debt, especially since there are such great Virginia schools out there. If a parent wants to finance an expensive school for their kid, that is one thing-but I would be really concerend about my kid taking on that kind of debt themselves. My kids are both coming out with about 15,000 in loans(and oldest has already paid it off) and I consider that doable ( and could help if needed) but 120,000 is a different story.</p>
<p>Just want to say I am not surprised that NYU did not offer the financial aid your D needs. They are terrible in that regard. As for drugs,like anywhere else, I am sure drugs are there, but so is my D and she has made the choice to not get involved with drugs and not hang around with those who do. Your D can make the same choice to stay away from stuff no matter where she attends school. Good luck!</p>
<p>How much would the monthly payment be on 120K in undergrad debt? Or 80K? How would a student pay for grad school with that much undergrad debt? </p>
<p>I felt somewhat uneasy about saddling him with the 20K in debt we had set as our ceiling. Luckily, two schools he really liked came through with enough merit aid to let him graduate debt free.</p>
<p>To plug RPI a bit, my BIL is a graduate and he later graduated from Harvard Business School. RPI is an excellent school that allows for any future a student can imagine.</p>
<p>OP - I have heard very good things about the honors program at UVM - don’t be sad if that’s where she ends up. Has she attended an accepted students day? Spoken with students in the honors program? I am sure they don’t all drink and use drugs - that’s one of the benefits of a larger school - there will be a wide variety of students. I’d go with UVM and be happy about it.</p>
<p>Sevmom </p>
<p>There are only two VA schools with programs in my daughters career areas, UVA and VTech. For reason having to do with my DD, and the sizes and styles of those schools, we agreed that they were not great matches. In any case, if we decided we can’t afford Lehigh, RPI which as I said gave some generous grants, is a better choice.</p>
<p>As for whether she can afford 120k, well we are discussing that. We could also help, somewhat. We only got final word on the Lehigh package a couple of days ago (long story) and haven’t had much time to fully absorb it. </p>
<p>And yes, we certainly know the positives of RPI.</p>
<p>*She wants desperately to go to NYU, but got a horrible financial aid package and would need to take out at least $20,000 loans each year. She has a great scholarship to UVM, but it’s reputation for drinking and drugs has totally turned her off, as well as its location. *</p>
<p>Ok… 
I’m going to be harsh…(with love) :)</p>
<p>No parent that wants their child to have a happy adulthood would agree to a situation which would leave their child with $80k in undergrad debt. (Even $50k is too much)</p>
<p>There are virtually no majors that earn enough to pay that back. </p>
<p>What is her major and likely career? How much do you think she’ll be earning after graduation?</p>
<p>Her loans would be about $1000 per month. That’s like 3 extra car payments - for TEN LONG YEARS. </p>
<p>How many YOUNG adults do you know that can afford 3 extra car payments in addition to all of their living expenses and REAL car payment???</p>
<p>Loan Calculator
**
Loan Balance: $80,000.00**
Adjusted Loan Balance: $80,000.00
Loan Interest Rate: 8.80%
Loan Fees: 0.00%
Loan Term: 10 years
Minimum Payment: $50.00</p>
<pre><code>Monthly Loan Payment: $1,004.77
Number of Payments: 120
Cumulative Payments: $120,571.89
Total Interest Paid: $40,571.89
</code></pre>
<p>Note: The monthly loan payment was calculated at 119 payments of $1,004.77 plus a final payment of $1,004.26.</p>
<p>It is estimated that **you will need an annual salary of at least $120,572.40 **to be able to afford to repay this loan.</p>
<p>I am not going to suggest that 80k in debt isn’t rightfully a big consideration.</p>
<p>But I would imagine there are some people who took on a lot of debt and still managed to have happy adulthoods. I mean happiness just isn’t that simple a thing. You can be happy in an attic, if you are true to yourself.</p>
<p>That is true BBD, but I remember how large that $150/month payment seemed when my DH & I got married & started down the road to parenthood & home ownership. I don’t think most kids understand the reality of those kinds of numbers. Heck, most adults don’t either and that’s part of the reason there was the whole subprime mortgage fiasco!</p>
<p>I hear you, but they can’t foreclose on your education, now can they? :)</p>
<p>And at least no one is planning on flipping their education either. :)</p>
<p>But if you ARE going to bring in that kind of financial analysis its worth considering something else - the loan amount is fixed. If you expect inflation, salaries are going to go up (obviously that will vary by field). OTOH if salaries deflate you are still stuck with the loan.</p>
<p>*You can be happy in an attic, if you are true to yourself. *</p>
<p>Oh brother… :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Parental decisions and preferences are based on the discernment of risks, benefits, safety, likely future outcomes, etc for their child…they’re not based on hoping that their child might still be happy by paying out tremendous debt and having to live in some oddball situation. </p>
<p>Parents can’t live in the short-term “here and now” and just be thinking about agreeing to large debt just to go to a “dream school.” (BTW…The dream is the career, not the school.)</p>
<p>College choice won’t be the last time a cost analysis will come into play…how much to spend on a wedding (dream wedding??), how much to spend on a home (a dream home???), how much to spend on a vacation (a dream vacation)…it can go on and on. Many of us have champagne tastes and beer pocketbooks. Abusing credit is not the way to get champagne.</p>
<p>To me, this is a no-brainer. Run for the hills from that kind of debt!</p>
<p>Even in a heavy party school, your daughter can carve out a niche for herself and make the college experience be what she wants it to be. </p>
<p>Most of us can “bloom where we are planted” and I think she will do fine and be EVER so grateful 4 years from now not to be cripplingly in debt.</p>
<p>You needn’t lecture me on financial frugality, I’ve read Ben Franklin too. I think I said that the money is a legitimate concern. </p>
<p>I merely contested the implication that one with a considerable amount of debt will not have a happy adulthood. Again, I think there are plenty of people living in oddball situations who are happy. Money is a VERY good thing to have, but I would dispute the linear correlation of money and happiness. </p>
<p>I also find the equation of education with a pure consumer good like a wedding or vacation rubs me the wrong way.</p>