<p>Hi, I was wondering if one doesn't want or can't do the big law corporate law, what other options do they have? For example, in business if someone doesn't want to or can't break into investment banking or consulting, the other option they have is to do corporate finance and attempt to move up the ladder. What about corporate law? Are there any other lucrative options depending on your talent, etc in corporate law? What kind of schools would you have to attend to get those positions (ie does the t14 rule still apply?)</p>
<p>Thanks</p>
<p>If you're talking about in-house legal jobs, the typical path consists of working for a large law firm for a few years, and then getting hired as an in-house attorney in the same area where you developed an expertise in-house.</p>
<p>I've known a few attorneys (myself included) who worked in small-firm practice, and then took in-house positions in corporate procurement departments, followed by a transition into the corporate legal department.</p>
<p>These opportunities have a way of opening and closing with the business cycle. Most of the lawyers I'm referring to made the transition in the early nineties, when a shortage of attorneys with substantial licensing experience made employers willing to cast their recruitment nets a little broader.</p>
<p>I'm not necessarily in agreement that the typical path consists of working for a large law firm, although I do agree that law firm experience is usually desirable for corporate positions. We've hired from smaller to mid-size firms, and Greybeard's own experience shows that he moved into a corporate job from a small-firm. If you're talking about competing for a corporate legal job, you will be competing potentially with lawyers from many sizes of firms and possibly companies. To be selected for an interview, we'd look for something that shows the individual knows the particular business. For example, a retailer might favor a candidate with real estate lease or licensing experience and/or prior work in the retail industry for a position, while a brokerage firm could be looking for candidates who have shown some interest in securities litigation work or relevant regulatory compliance. If hiring someone right out of law school for some reason, applicants who can point to relevant industry experience in clinics, certificates in the area of interest, attendance at special seminars, etc. will be more attractive. If the company is hiring someone to do store leases, it is more likely to be interested in interviewing someone from a small firm who has real estate experience than someone from a large firm who handled employment matters. I know this sounds very basic, but it's surprising how many people forget this. When we advertised our last position, it was surprising how few of the resumes that we received actually matched the advertised job.</p>
<p>It is possible sometimes to move from non-legal department roles in procurement/contracting or other corporate jobs to the legal department, but this is always a risk. You never know how that non-legal department experience is being viewed. Some companies may view that experience as strictly nonlegal business work, and other companies may look at it as potentially valuable experience to their legal department. Our legal department tends NOT to hire from the many lawyers working in nonlegal jobs, although we made an exception a few years ago that worked out very well. Small to mid-size legal departments may be more receptive to letting their lawyers in nonlegal jobs move into legal work. </p>
<p>In my experience, T14 is much less important than relevant experience. There are industries and General Counsels/companies who favor T14 grads (just like law firms), which are easy to identify by looking at their legal department on a site like Martindale.com. There are also companies that don't care, or which favor other schools for various reasons (regional schools, a General Counsel's own law school, etc.). </p>
<p>I absolutely agree with Greybeard that corporate jobs ebb and flow with the economy. Likewise, the glut of lawyers have made it easier to hire lawyers at "market" instead of inflated top-firm salaries. I have encountered lawyers with 5 years of big firm experience who are looking for a corporate job with expectations of making big firm wages at their next job...which sometimes are higher than line-executives! I always recommend that lawyers looking for lucrative positions have a very good sense of their actual market value and the competition. Right now, there are fewer "lucrative" jobs anywhere.</p>
<p>On second thought, I'd probably describe the path of large law firm to in-house position as "a common path" rather than "the typical path".</p>
<p>I also concur with Neonzeus's caution about the risk of taking a job with procurement, or other business function. Those of us in my old procurement department who moved to in-house positions had to switch companies to do it. (My wife did manage to move from procurement to the GC's office at the same company, as did a former colleague at another company.)</p>
<p>I went in-house from the beginning, but I don't think that is typical anymore. I didn't have any trouble moving from job to job/company to company(except now that I'm old.....).</p>
<p>well to be honest, I don't really know what I'm asking either lol. Here's a better way of phrasing what I'm asking:</p>
<p>If you are a good, but not necessarily top (i.e. you had a shot at the biglaw firms, but aren't super competitive), but want to practice corporate law, is it still possible to have a successful career? A better analogy I suppose is, when applying to colleges, there are applicants that are head-and-shoulders above everyone else and get into some top 20 or so public school or top tier LACs, and for those that are good but not necessarily at the top, they still go to the top state schools or second tier privates like USC. Similar thing I'm asking here. If you're a lawyer who's the equivalent to a student who gets into the best state schools and is clearly good, but not necessarily amazing, how do they generally do?</p>
<p>if corporate law is what you really want, then what's wrong with doing it at a smaller firm? Pay won't be as much at first, but it's still rather lucrative... big law firms aren't the only firms that offer these services..</p>
<p>In my opinion, the most sophisticated transactional corporate work is done by BIGLAW firms, and even then, I wouldn't consider every BIGLAW firm as a top corporate law firm. </p>
<p>That has been my experience, both as a BIGLAW attorney and as a client of BIGLAW and smaller law firms.</p>
<p>truth: I have absolutely no problem with working at a smaller firm. I mean, I know the pay won't be as good, but I'm willing to bet that I'd work less hours as well. The thing is, people only talk about the biglaw firms and seem to say that its the only way to make money. Do the smaller firms also pay well (by well I mean 150k or so...that's the magic number for me in my lifetime) as you gain experience and whatnot, or will you be stuck with a sub 100k job out of law school with a smaller firm.</p>
<p>The thing is, although I think I have a shot at the T14, I've completely, and I mean completely messed up my grades these first 2 terms because I thought doing pre-med was the right choice for me. Now, I'm stuck with around a 3.2 GPA for my first two terms, and I probably won't get into a half decent law school, so I need more info about whether you can still do well even if you don't get into the biglaw firms.</p>
<p>Most law firms in this country pay newly minted associates far less than $100,000 per year. Only the largest law firms pay starting associates $160,000 per year at the outset, and the number of law firms that do so is dwindling as a number of BIGLAW firms shut their doors permanently in this economy. Not every lawyer will ever make $150,000 or so a year, even after many years of practicing. It depends on your firm/company/employer/partnership, your geographic location, your success at bringing in and then keeping clients, the economy and your area of practice, among other things. </p>
<p>As law is a client-service industry, not every smaller law firm necessarily calls for working fewer hours, and, at times, all lawyers work long hours in order to best serve their clients and meet their demands.</p>