<p>Thanks to you all for an informative site. My son is thinking of applying ED. </p>
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<li><p>The situation is that I have been divorced from his mother for a number of years, and she has been out of her son's life due to the fact that she was convicted of abusing him when he was younger. This happened in Mexico.</p></li>
<li><p>As a result of the abuse, the criminal courts put a restraining order on her contact with the kids until the investigation is complete. She was convicted, and the restraining order was lifted, and the form of access left to the family court to decide.</p></li>
<li><p>The family court court transferred full custody to me, and allowed me to move the children to the US. She was supposed to come up with an access plan, however she has been unable to provide a suitable plan.</p></li>
<li><p>Since then (about 8 years) ago, they have not seen each other, and only rather sporadically (maybe once a year) from obscure emails and untraceable phone numbers. We do not know where she currently lives, and would not disclose the location to our kids. We are unable to reach her by phone (only she can call).</p></li>
<li><p>Also during abuse investigation and the resulting custody change, the issue of child support never came up. She had no income at the time, and the safety of the kids was my concern. I have since not pursued the child support application: doing so would mean making a motion in the US here (against someone who purportedly resides in Mexico), and pay for attorney costs.</p></li>
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<p>Given the above, I want to apply for a non-custodial waiver. </p>
<p>Is there a strong case here? How do we proceed?</p>
<p>You and your son certainly should start filing the non custodial waivers and get copies of evidence of all of the information given as exhibits to be attached to your letter that should go with the copy of the request that the school counselor will fill out, or sent out as a separate cover. How strong of a case you have, I don’t know. I believe Sybbie has directly worked with these requests and she reports that some schools are very stingy with them. I can see a school wishing that you make some attempt to get child support–just what if your ex happens to be a millionaire or married to one? They would look pretty stupid if that came to light and went viral on the internet, that they never made you at least make motion and see if there isn’t anything there. And your ex could pour salt on those kind of wounds by simply saying she was never notified or asked or told. So that is the weakness of your argument. Due diligence is often required just in case some situation like the above occurs, unlikely though it may be. </p>
<p>But some schools are a lot easier on this than other. So give it a go and see what happens.</p>
<p>As for applying ED, I don’t ever thing it’s a good idea unless parent and child are so committed to a school and an amount to pay for it that it doesn’t matter what other deals may be out there. And in your case you have the waiver that has to be considered as well. If you feel that it’s so all fired important to do the ED, go on ahead and do and make sure that the school know s that a commitment to the NCP waiver also has to be made at the same time as any acceptance and financial aid estimate. You don’t want to go with the ED acceptance and then run into problems with that waiver, so you can’t have any strings attached to that waiver unless that is another risk you want to take. </p>
<p>My personal opinion is that if I were in the position to make any decisions here, I would insist that you attempt to get child support. That abuse is in the picture, and there are restraining orders have nothing to do with child support obigations. Many parents convicted of all kinds of abuse and never see their kids still have to pay child support. See it all of the time. So that you have not at least pursued and kept on top of that venue is not something I would feel the school should have to support. Not to mention the fact that it would look really foolish and negligent of a school to give money if the other parent turns out to have money. So I would require some action on your part to find the parent and check out whether any resources are there and to initiate court actition to get child support. It’s not the schools’ problems that you have not done this, but yours. Maybe you were content to do without the potential money, but they are not going to feel the same way. Too bad if it’s trouble and expense for you.</p>
<p>But there may well be schools that do not look at things the same way I do.</p>
<p>It’s just not that complicated, cptofthehouse. The OP’s situation is very straightforward, and there shouldn’t be any difficulty getting an NCP waiver.</p>
<p>And, no, the schools do NOT demand that the parent have attempted to get child support! Sometimes, that’s just not feasible. And, in the circumstances described here, it would be prohibitively expensive . . . with little to no likelihood of success. Child support orders are enforceable between states, but between countries??? Even if the mom had money, there’d be no way of enforcing a child support order.</p>
<p>Most colleges take the situation at face value. They may ask for documentation to confirm the parent’s story, but I’ve never heard of any school demanding that a parent “try to get child support” before a waiver is granted.</p>
<p>Yes, the situation is different if we’re talking about a recent divorce and an affluent, but uncooperative, ex-spouse. But that’s simply not the situation that the OP described.</p>
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<p>No. That’s simply not correct. The student doesn’t need to do anything until a financial aid application has been submitted. At that time, the student can request an NCP waiver. Some schools will require a statement from the student (or parent). Virtually all schools will require a statement from a third party who can confirm the parent’s absence. (Some schools will require two statements.) And some schools will have their own waiver application that the student needs to fill out.</p>
<p>Nothing is needed from the student’s guidance counselor, and nothing needs to be (or can be) submitted before the school receives the student’s FA application.</p>
<p>Every college has its own protocol for reviewing NCP waivers. Contact each college and find out what you need to do. They will you what they want. This very much could vary by college. Just be prepared to give the different colleges the information they request. Do this sooner than later.</p>
<p>Thanks for all your responses. I appreciate the thoughts, and would indeed write out the explanation and try to get as much of the documentation ready (including letters from our family pediatrician) and school counselor. I will then tweak the submission according to the requirements of different schools.</p>
<p>A useful forums - again… i appreciate your thoughts…</p>
<p>Yawovi, I’ve been chastised about being too harsh in my response to you. I still stand by what I say as possible impediments to your claim. As i made very clear, I thought, yes, some schools might just give you a wave though with your counselor’s request. That would be great, and I hope all of the schools do so. Then no further issues there. But…the problem is if that does not happen, and I have given you the reasons and scenarios where this could be the case.</p>
<p>My DH was in a similar situation where there was much abuse, many court cases, kidnappings and the such during a very nasty divorce and custody trial. When he applied to colleges and for aid, none of the schools accepted the NCP waivers with parish, court, psychiatrist, and school records. They asked that another effort be made. </p>
<p>Do PM Sybbie, a long time board member and now a moderator, as she does deal directly with these waivers. AT my son’s school a number of NCPs that everyone thought would be a cake walk were deinied last year, and some of the back stories make your and DH’s look like sweetheart deals. Downright dangerous NCPs and exes involved, but the schools, and these were some top flight, generous schools, wanted more info, and more efforts to be made before giving a NCP waiver. Actually those school not likely to give full need were more generous with the waivers. So, YMMV, depending on the schools. </p>
<p>I want you to be prepared for the worst and understand the reasoning behind any possible denials before you get them in a very tight timeframe, especially with ED involved. You’ll get plenty of sympathizers who will say it looks good for you, and yes, i sympathize with your situation and I sympathize with your son. But that isn’t giving you the hard core info and the other side of what you might see when you request a NCP… This way, you can be prepared for what the outlook is from some of the schools.</p>
<p>My response was not at all intended to be a slam on how you have dealt with things. My apologies if there is any judgemental issue, there. I wanted to show you very clearly what someone looking at the situation with no emotion involved and looking at all of the contingencies and possibilities would see. Again, any rudeness or harshnesh was not intended, but I wanted to cut the the quick and discuss where you could run into issues.</p>
<p>My recommendation is to document, document, document. have your documents from Mexico professionally translated.</p>
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<p>Actually, if OP is considering ED, he should be as proactive as possible given the fact that he has a small window before a decision on admission and financial aid is made. Any documentation submitted will just be added to the student file, so that it is there when they do evaluate the file. If you can have it available before the school ask about it because you want/need to have it done. This way you cut down on time going back and forth and put the your self in the best position go through the process as smoothly as possible ( I have already written 4 letters since school started 3 weeks ago).</p>
<p>look on each website and find out what information they ask for regarding a non-custodial waiver. Some schools, have a preliminary form to fill out. Some schools will simply ask you to write 2 letters (it is after they have this first information they will decide if any follow up is needed).</p>
<p>He should definitely speak to the counselor because based on the willingness to disclose the background situation would be used in both the school evaluation and the 3rd party letter. </p>
<p>The possible challenges, I see with OP’s situation are as follows:</p>
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<p>This means that the court no longer saw mom as a threat to her children.</p>
<p>While the court granted dad sole physical custody of his children, he does not have sole legal custody of his children (these are 2 different thing. Mom was not stripped her her legal rights to her children). The Mexican courts no longer viewed her as a threat to her children nor even requested supervised visitation (OP states, that they must come up with an access plan).</p>
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<p>Mom no longer has an access plan to her children due to actions that the father has taken (it is highly unlikely that a US court would have allowed you to take children out of the country especially if it were going to pose a hardship to the noncustodial parent having access to the children especially if parent had legal rights to see their children. I have had incarcerated parents who still have legal rights to their children).</p>
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<p>Should you hear from mom, you must make a good faith effort to have her fill out the forms (neither of you will have access to the other’s information, so your children will not be compromised).</p>
<p>Write your letter, tell your story, get a third party letter from the school from someone who knows your situation. I give forms where I ask if there are any extenuating circumstances that the school should know about. I then follow up with a meeting of both the parent and the child. the more information that you can give the school about your situation, the better position that you are going to be in.</p>
<p>It has been my experience that financial aid offices are asking for more information especially from the school and back up documentation to support what is written in the letter. I wrote over 30 letters last admissions cycle and only 2 were not approved (I new that they were not going to be but I told my student and parent that all we could do is try).</p>
<p>I had a similar case just this past spring; parents divorced due to abuse. Mom given sole physical custody of child with supervised visitation. The student was registered in school with copies of the divorce decree and a no contact order by the NCP (which was included with the original request for NCP waiver) and each year was listed on the emergency contact forms that this person could not pick up child and should not be called about the child (and was not listed as the parent of record so the school could not tell the parent anything about the child).</p>
<p>The colleges asked for copies of the divorce decree, because they wanted to see if there was a support order in place. Parent was very good because she had copies of all of the restraining order, and violations to the restraining orders. since NCP did not pay support, the schools wanted additional documentation from the support collection unit.</p>
<p>Just this past August, while going through the verification process, one of my kids sent me a message through face book to call her. When I called her, she was in tears asking if I would write them a third party letter (I had her freshman -junior year, not senior year). It took about 4 days faxing, calling, e-mailing and following up to get the school to give the student a waiver (after her senior year counselor had written a letter).</p>
<p>do colleges consistently request information from the high school, counselors and teachers? in many cases the school is unaware of the family situation</p>
<p>As far as I’m aware, the college will request that 3rd party verification be provided by the parent, who can choose for themselves who will provide that verification. Doesn’t have to be the high school.</p>
<p>And teachers & counselor will likely have some awareness of the situation, even if it’s nothing more than, “I’ve never met anyone other than Parent A. I’ve never even spoken to Parent B."</p>
<p>A parent is not a third party. While the parent can write a statement of the situation, if the school is asking for a third party, it has to be neutral person who does not a vested interest in the outcome. </p>
<p>Actually, if there is an abusive situation and the parent is not to have access to the child, the school is made aware at time of registration and will be flagged the DOE data system. In addition the information is updated annually because emergency contact cards specifically ask who can and cannot have access to the child.</p>
<p>*Quote:
As far as I’m aware, the college will request that 3rd party verification be provided by the parent
*</p>
<p>I think the person meant that the parent will contact a 3rd party (priest, rabbi, doctor, etc) who knows that the other parent has been absent to get that 3rd party’s statement that the other parents has been AWOL.</p>
<p>However, even a 3rd party person may not be aware of any financial payments. The person may not have ever seen the other parent, but the other parent may have regularly paid, had the child visit their home/country/etc.</p>
<p>As far as I’m aware, the college will request that 3rd party verification be provided by the parent, who can choose for themselves who will provide that verification. In other words, the college will go to the parent and say: “We need 3rd party verification.” The parent will then select a 3rd party of his or her own choosing, and ask that person to submit the requested verification to the school.</p>
<p>I’m sure there may be cases where a school might require verification from a specific person, but I’d suspect those would be the exception, rather than the rule.</p>
<p>For my daughter, the colleges accepted the school counselor as the 3rd party, but she was in a boarding school, so it was more obvious that she had no contact with the other parent. I had sole physical and legal custody.</p>
<p>My D was denied NCP waivers two years ago. One admissions office said if she hadn’t had contact with her other parent for 7 years or more, that college would’ve looked more favorably at her waiver application. (it had only been 3 years of non-contact) Other colleges said to us at the time that if the other parent was paying any child support, a waiver most likely wouldn’t be approved. That was related to having some knowledge of the other parent’s identity, whereabouts, and the fact that they obviously had some kind of income. I sometimes think it might be easier to get a waiver approved if the other parent is dead, in prison, or there’s some kind of proof that their whereabouts are unknown. </p>
<p>The best advice I can give to divorced families where there’s no coordinated college financial plan is for their students to apply to non-CSS colleges that only look at one household’s income. Okay, that’s the easier way to deal with the issue too.</p>
<p>I fear that I was way too heavy handed in the way I responded to the OP. I want to reiterate, that the NCP Waiver is something that you and, usually the school counselor complete. You document and present your best case and consult with that counselor. If you have an outside pastor, social worker, etc as well, that can help too. Have documentation ready, because often when you are asked a question from a school, the answer has to be accompanied by documentation.</p>
<p>There are several pitfalls with this process FIrst of all, you have to apply school by school and some schools and programs are much more stringent and really down right stingy than others. You could get a wave through with no problem–just the attachment from the GC saying that neither hide nor hair of the NCP has ever been in evidence by the school. If that happens, good for you. BUt be prepared for questions. </p>
<p>The other big problem I have seen is that a lot of parents and kids talk themselves into thinking that they have an iron clad argument about the waiver. Everyone they talk to nods and agrees, and you get thot thinking you have an air tight case, and no one in the right mind will deny or question you. Even the counselor solemnly rights the note and sympathizes with you and agrees that s/he would give you a waiver without a question. So you’ve convinced yourself that there is no way that you have any problem. The parent was removed from the life of the child due to abuse, etc, etc. Then the questions start. and all of a sudden you realize that there are all kinds of possibilities out there and some schools want them all addressed. </p>
<p>THings like how do you KNOW that the parent won’t pay if you haven’t even contacted him/her? How long ago was that restraining order and is it still in place? Why haven’t you gone after child support? You start down that path and all of a sudden, you are blind sided. Not necessarily by all schools and programs, hopefully, some might just rubber stamp your app as a “go” and you are good. But be prepared if you are requesting a waiver that the schools and others are looking for ways to deny it. With so many from split families, this has become a serious run on scarce resources and a lot of schools are taking the position that if families have not done all they could do to get the money from the other parent, then why should the colleges take up the slack and pay? </p>
<p>My DH did get waivers eventually, but not without mailing massive amounts of paperwork and testimonials from court pyschiatrists,etc. That the parent had not paid a red cent or made any effort to contact the son and ignored court orders was not enough at the first request. </p>
<p>THings have gotten tighter these days too. I just went to my last chlid’s college night and when the NCP topic came up, the moderator grimaced noticeably and said that private conferences were needed to discuss this,and that this has become an issue that has become harder to address as schools are setting more stringent requirements for this waiver to be granted. I was told that one school in particular, that used to give a “wave through” for such requests as long as no child support or contact was being made while in high school, they were asking for more info and denying some requests.</p>
<p>I sometimes think it might be easier to get a waiver approved if the other parent is dead, i</p>
<p>lol</p>
<p>If the other parent is dead, no waiver is needed. </p>
<p>I do wonder if a death cert (or other proof) is req’d, otherwise I wonder how many have claimed that the other parent is dead to avoid including their info.</p>
<p>No death certificate required, but schools do crosscheck the deceased name and SSN against IRS and SSA databases.</p>
<p>Ok…that makes sense. The applicant has to supply SSN numbers. Of course if the deceased isn’t a citizen, no SSN exists. Seems like a loop-hole for those with NCPs who are abroad???</p>