<p>*“I wasn’t really speaking about Wes in that case, but in another. A student here on CC got a better FA package than she should have from Conn College…”</p>
<p>I realize your advice applies to other schools but, since it really doesn’t apply to Wes and this post is just about Wes, I’m not sure why it’s mentioned here. It just sort of confuses the pot, kwim? *</p>
<p>I only mentioned it in response to another person’s post who said that they knew of a situation where the NCP income was ignored and I offered that maybe the student had really high stats. In such a case, the school finds it beneficial to the school to be extra generous. A student whose stats are avg for the school is not going to present such an incentive… </p>
<p>I totally agree that the possibility can muddy the issue. I don’t want to give false hope. Believe me. We’ve seen too many families get their hopes ditched because they expected a school to give extra consideration and it didn’t happen.</p>
<p>I’m on the side of NOT applying ED, and only applying to Wes as a “let’s see,” but assume that it won’t work out and have good backups that are affordable.</p>
<p>Personally, unless my kid was 100% ok with attending the community college, I would also make sure that applying ED to Wes doesn’t preclude following a reasonable back-up plan or missing an important dealine (for example for guaranteed aid, work-college or ncp’s home country college). </p>
<p>OP, is there something you didn’t mention-- like do you have a lot of equity in a house that you could sell to finance this? (And you do realize Wes would take home equity into account, right?) Because I’m wondering why you would be willing to take out loans if you’re unemployed-- or even why you think you would qualify. Frankly, the possibility that you would risk your own future finances so much is the part of your posts that concerns me the most. Of course, if you acquired a large asset in the divorce and are willing to part with it to pay for your child’s college, then your plan to finance with loans makes a lot more sense-- especially if this is your only child. </p>
<p>I want to add a bit of unsolicited personal advice as a btdt parent. I found that, as a divorced, custodial parent of several children, what I did for one child, I really needed to plan on doing for all my children or they can end up very resentful to each other. So if you have several children who may be college-bound someday, be aware that letting #1 apply ED to his “dream school” may get very costly. I need to be careful not to let my guilt (over what they didn’t have) lead my decisions and be very concrete from the beginning. (If the college gives us X in financial aid, we can do it; otherwise, it’s just not possible.) YMMV</p>
<p>-the ex-spouse is fully in the loop and prepared to step up and meet the expected family contribution (not just HALF the family contribution) or whatever division is able to be shouldered equitably and is agreeable to both.</p>
<p>Well, since the ex is not only unwilling to pay any of the family contribution, much less his fair share based on his income or even half, that really seals the deal against the idea of ED or any reasonable expectation that this school will be affordable.</p>
<p>I think the mom is just understandably frustrated that her son can’t have his dream because his dad won’t contribute what he could likely afford. It’s very hard (and painful) to have to tell a child that they can’t go to a school because their NCP won’t pay. This is a different issue than when custodial parents say the same thing. There are often rejection issues involved when dealing with an NCP with a good income who won’t pay.</p>
<p>Which they weren’t. They’ve made it very clear that the NCP’s income WILL be taken into account, and it sounds like that would add up to a really huge gap between when the OP would be expected to pay and what they could afford.</p>
<p>Unless I missed it earlier, Anymom should bring SPECIFICS to Wes FA and find out the actual facts vs. assumptions…if Wes counts 100% ex income and assets with no wiggle room, then Wes is not an option no matter what. Why give up by assuming the worst? I see nothing to lose by talking to them…</p>
<p>There’s no harm in applying RD to Wes to see what happens. But, the general advice has been to assume that it won’t work out and seek other affordable schools.</p>
<p>Mom2collegekids…unless I missed it, she had a general conversation and told “ability to pay” vs. “willingness…” – don’t think she discussed her specific circumstances as I outlined in my post…</p>
<p>“So if you have several children who may be college-bound someday, be aware that letting #1 apply ED to his “dream school” may get very costly.”</p>
<p>This can certainly be true, but more specifically, why is ED different from RD in this respect? If a FA offer is affordable (or not) at RD time, the same offer is presumably affordable (or not) at ED time. Also, if the first child “uses up” the EFC, the EFC for the remaining children is effectively zero. Clearly schools that meet full need are an issue, and are few.</p>
<p>“why is ED different from RD in this respect”</p>
<p>because you are promising to stretch yourself and give up the right to compare aid for a specific, ‘dream’ school </p>
<p>“Clearly schools that meet full need are an issue, and are few.”</p>
<p>If you can meet your EFC-- which parents often can’t. </p>
<hr>
<p>Yes, there are schools that are unaffordable-- and people can get out of ED contracts if the award is clearly unaffordable. But what I have seen happen more often is that a school may ask for a stretch that the parents would have prefered not to make. So it is affordable, but not what the parents would have hoped for. By telling kid #1 that you are willing to give up the right to have comparison offers and you are willing to commit to a school unless financial aid is atrocious, you give up a lot of bargaining power with gray decisions. It may work out well if the oldest kid gets into one school but then not so well when another kid gets into a different school. </p>
<p>*unless I missed it, she had a general conversation and told “ability to pay” vs. “willingness…” – don’t think she discussed her specific circumstances as I outlined in my post… *</p>
<p>I may be assuming too much, but I would imagine that when she talked to Wes she told them that she has an ex with a high income who won’t contribute and then asked how that will affect aid. I didn’t think she called and just said one sentence, got an answer, and then hung up. I would think that once you got someone on the phone, there would be a conversation and if Wes discounted NCP info, Wes would have mentioned it.</p>
<p>What other specifics does she really need to know? Even if they somehow count NCP income less, that would really only make a significant difference if the NCP had a modest income. But, since the NCP has a high income, even if the school discounted his income a bit, there will still be an expectation of contribution that the CP can’t cover.</p>
<p>Does anyone know of CSS schools that require NCP info that “discount” the NCP info? That seems to defeat the purpose…especially since frequently NCP income (often the father) has a higher income than the CP (usually the mother).</p>
<p>I have not heard of discounting (which is not to say it doesn’t happen, just that I haven’t seen it), but certainly there are cases when a family successfully appeals their FA award asking that the NCP information be waived --sometimes before it’s been received and sometimes after.</p>
<p>If you just call up a school that requires NCP information, what would you expect them say? Of course they’ll say they consider ability to pay, not willingness to pay. In fact they’ll say that for all circumstances, even for intact families.</p>
<p>I think the OP is making the right decision to not apply ED after considering her circumstances. Another person might make a different decision which might be just the right thing for them; to apply with the intention of appealing the award. Like I said, that approach has worked for kids I know personally – not just stories from CC.</p>
<p>If you just call up a school that requires NCP information, **what would you expect them say? Of course they’ll say they consider ability to pay, not willingness to pay. **In fact they’ll say that for all circumstances, even for intact families.</p>
<p>Maybe, maybe not. A school that doesn’t want to discourage an applicant might suggest that special circumstances might get considered. It would seem that if there were some wiggle-room, the school would encourage the application and see if some consideration can be made. To be unnecessarily outright negative would just discourage applicants.</p>
<p>Well, I can tell you first hand that sometimes a school will say no in advance, and then say no on appeal, and they say yes higher up the ladder.</p>
<p>You cannot personally know how things will go unless you pursue them. If we’re talking the odds of such a thing happening, that’s dependent on so many variables we quickly get into a discussion based on nothing by hypotheticals. That may be a conversation of interest to some folks, and of less interest to others.</p>
<p>Some people like big signs that say YES and NO. Some people take a different approach. Thankfully, we can all make our own choices as to how we’ll proceed, if not the ultimate outcome.</p>
<p>I don’t think the chances for a waiver or special circumstances at Wes are very good at all. I think the school has been quite realistic because they don’t offer wiggle room. The dad has a high income and has been in the child’s life. That’s really no different than a CP with a high income not being willing to pay…so no special consideration given in those cases.</p>
<p>That’s why I don’t think it’s going to work out at Wes or most any school that requires NCP info.</p>
<p>If an RD application is given, it should just be done to see “what if,” but the assumption should be that it won’t work. At the same time, there should be some applications to schools that will be affordable either by the CP paying or scholarships/grants or some combo.</p>
<p>Yes, but Wesleyan specifically says on their web site that they will NOT negotiate or entertain appeals of financial aid unless there is new and different information – so, for example, if the NCP lost his job or became unexpectedly disabled after the initial application, Wes might consider it. </p>
<p>They also have a form on their site for financial applicants who want to petition for a waiver of the NCP requirement, and the form specifically says that such waivers are granted only in unusual circumstances: “Exceptions are rare and only occur when exceptional circumstances exist, such as orders of protection.”</p>
<p>So we know from the start that the only way for the OP to get Wesleyan to even consider waiving the NCP income would be to fill out the form and lay out the “exceptional circumstances” that apply in her son’s case. Not wanting to part with one’s wealth is not the type of “exceptional circumstances” Wesleyan has in mind – and if the NCP has been regularly paying child support and hosted the son for a recent visit, its hard to know what the OP could possibly come up with to put on the form.</p>
<p>
It’s one thing to pursue a long shot from a position of safety and strength – such as when the student has applied to multiple colleges – and quite another to give up opportunities in the pursuit of an unlikely long shot, which is what happens if a student pursues ED knowing that a financial aid award in accordance with the college’s standard policies will be inadequate. The “odds” of this particular student ever being able to attend Wesleyan are slim, but the odds are obviously better in the RD process than in the ED process, simply because the family ends up in a position of greater strength from which to negotiate.</p>
<p>Well, I think the OP is making the choice she’s making for her own good reasons. If it was me, seeing what I’ve seen from people I know in real life, I’d be inclined to give it a go, with all the aforementioned precautions in place such as early apps to rolling admissions school, RD apps in pipeline, etc.</p>
<p>Of course if I’d followed the advice on CC regarding applying ED with financial need a few years ago when I first came here, my own kid may have missed out on what’s turned out to be an incredible blessing. And so with his friend who had his NCP info waived and so with his friend who had the value of a second home waived… because their parents appealed their initial ED FA offer.</p>
<p>My S goes to Wes with a generous financial aid package, but I can say from experience that they are strict about the noncustodial parent info, and do not negotiate. I had a situation where ex didn’t file income tax because he had no income and despite filing all appropriate waivers, doing a non-custodial CSS form, and sending a letter explaining the circumstances, we still didn’t get an award with his admission. And then they said, “we’ll let it go this time” but that made me nervous since there was nothing to let go. </p>
<p>We have a good award, but I doubt it will make you feel any better talking with the Wes financial aid folks. Just assume your ex’s income will be fully counted and proceed accordingly. I’m sorry you’re in such a tough position.</p>