<p>I didn't say NU is more marketable than CMU, I said an econ degree from NU (and HYPSM, Chicago) is more marketable than Tepper. I was comparing NU's econ vs CMU's biz, not "everything" (though I'd point out CMU's liberal arts is its weaker spot). Whether that's true or not is debatable but what I said is different. </p>
<p>I don't even know how you got a hold of salary of various grads of both schools. As for chemistry; you mean chemistry grad from CMU has higher salary than NU's? Even I said higher salary doesn't necessarily mean better program, I would be very surprised if CMU chem grads earn more than NU chem grad since NU is ranked #9 while CMU is #50. A lot of chem grads go to grad schools/med schools anyway.</p>
<p>NU has no IS major. Did you go to engineering school? Is so, then I think you should be a little more honest about the fact the salary is skewed by large number of ECE grads. You tried to make it sound like that's not the case; sorry, CMU website shows the following breakdown of majors:</p>
<p>BME (an essentially adjunct major that has go to with one of the other engineering discipline)
ChemE 150
ECE 481
Civil/Env 30
Mat Sci 63
Mech 327</p>
<p>Any engineering school with such higher portion of ECE majors is gonna have higher average salary as electrical engineers usually have the higest pay. ECE majors from some 2nd tier school is probably gonna make more than a BME from Duke. It's totally dictated by the industry. Funny how you try to hide that. At NU, ECE is far from the biggest. BME and Industrial Engg are the biggest there. So of course, NU's average salary is gonna be lower. </p>
<p>NU is ranked higher in biomedical engg, material sciences, and industrial/management sciences. You were trying to hide the fact the average salary is heavily skewed by the ECE majors and trying to paint it like CMU is better in <em>every</em> discipline.</p>
<p>Bottom of first page I believe, "CMU business is no Wharton, Ross, Stern, or even Hass. A degree from top ranked econ program like HYPSM, Chicago, and Northwestern is likely more marketble." --Sam Lee</p>
<p>No, I definitely never wanted to make it seem like CMU was better in everything, mostly just to disprove your marketability statement and the statement about the business schools.</p>
<p>Also, I couldn't find NU's split up salaries but their overall avg. is $53,551.
CMU does not publish total CIT avg. salaries, I did that by myself and my point of the total avg > NU's total avg was just one point.</p>
<p>Here you can see that CMU Biomedical Engineering is at $58,500, Chemical Engineering at $59,500 > NU overall average and EPP at $54,500 is also greater, as well as Materials at $56,750 and so is Mechanical at $54,000. So it's not just ECE.
Link: <a href="http://www.studentaffairs.cmu.edu/career/employ/salary/cit.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.studentaffairs.cmu.edu/career/employ/salary/cit.html</a></p>
<p>This also proves that "rankings" are not the end all be all to everything. Clearly I was not hiding anything. Your argument actually WEAKENS NU's status because you state that BME and Industrial Engineering is the biggest at NU and since the avg at NU is 53,551, it seems CMU is superior with avg BME/EPP/Mech/Materials > 53,551.</p>
<p>AcceptedAlready,</p>
<p>As I stated before, CMU's BME is NOT a stand-alone degree program. Any BME at CMU is likely also a ChemE or MechE or ECE (hence an extra year of stay). CMU does it because its biomed isn't its strength--it has no med school and its bio is relatively weak. </p>
<p>In fact, the very salary survey you referred to shows that almost none of the BME grads work for biotech companies. LOL! <a href="http://www.studentaffairs.cmu.edu/career/employ/salary/Biomed.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.studentaffairs.cmu.edu/career/employ/salary/Biomed.pdf</a> Those are really chemE jobs! That's why the salary is like chemE's.<br>
Actually if salary means everything, I guess the BME at CMU rather useless because a 4-yr chemE has higher salary than 5-yr BME+chemE or BME+mechE (+ extra year of tuition). ;)</p>
<p>BME rank:
NU: 12th
CMU: 24th</p>
<p>Mat Sci:
NU-2nd
CMU-12th
NU is very well-known in the world of material sciences. It's where the field started. CMU can't touch NU in that area. Sorry.</p>
<p>Industrial:
NU-6th
CMU-NR (no department)</p>
<p>So if CMU doesn't even have it, how can it be "superior" in that area? </p>
<p>BY the way, how do you get a hold of 2005-06 salary survey of NU without being a student anyway. Even their admission website still has 2009 data! What about salary adjustment--midwest vs east coast. You never factor that into consideration.</p>
<p>The OP said he/she might switch. Now that I see Tepper's job survey, I'd retract my statement that an econ degree is more marketable. It looks very comparable. But is it really easy to transfer to Tepper if the OP wants to anyway? The OP can major in econ at NU anytime he/she wants; she/he also has a chance to get in specialty programs like MMSS/Kellogg certifcate. MMSS students (40 per year but just expanded to 60 starting this year) have <em>great</em> job placement. A look at the internships they have in the last couple yrs: <a href="http://www.mmss.northwestern.edu/current_students/Internship%20Directory.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.mmss.northwestern.edu/current_students/Internship%20Directory.pdf</a>. A quick glance shows 4 for GS and 3 for LB; considering the small class and that about half usually go to grad school, it's an impressive list. Kellogg cert (50 spots for financial economics and 50 spots for managerial analytics) is brand-new and according to one speaker, the level of the classes in the certificate programs "blows" anything Wharton has to offer out of the water.</p>
<p>By the way, EPP, like BME, also requires double-major with another engg. I wonder why it's me to tell you this, not the other way around. Now an extra year of college actually makes one earn less. So much for using salary to judge!</p>
<p>You're right CMU doesn't have a medical school so that may hurt its ability to support a top Biomed major. However, down the street is Pitt Med which is a top 20 medical school. CMU and Pitt Med have entered into recent partnerships in quite a few areas...I'll predict this program will get stronger in the future. It may never "catch up" to Northwestern but the potential for an excellent program is there.</p>
<p>Well you believe in rankings and I believe in surveys which I believe highlight recruiter reputation (which is what I'm interested in as a future graduate out in the real world). </p>
<p>Either way is fine but a good history does not mean other schools cannot progress. From the salaries and jobs it seems CMU is doing quite a good job in Materials Engineering. Saying that NU is "untouchable" in this regard is misinformed IMO. </p>
<p>Also, it's not hard to find the NU avg salaries. I don't really understand your other argument because let's take NYU Stern for example, should its location be held against it when looking at schools simply because it is in the heart of NYC and has many students that work in the area postgrad? That is actually one of my points about schools like Haas, their location postgrad hurts them as not many students are going to the business capital of the country. CA is great for tech-related work but for business there is nothing like the East coast (D.C., NY, Boston, etc.)</p>
<p>Anyways, my main point was already accomplished and I don't really care to argue about CIT/Med/etc. NU is "better" in some areas just like CMU is "better" in some areas. To summarize, CMU has a great job network and it should not be underestimated for any field.</p>
<p>Oh and concerning med schools I'd check in with all majors in MCS especially Biology. CIT kids and MCS kids have different priorities in job seeking and higher education.</p>
<p>Hi Accepted Already,
I suggest you not engage Sam anymore.
Ignore him & he'll go away. (We hope)</p>
<p>AcceptedAlready,</p>
<p>I am sorry; but "untouchable" isn't meant to be taken literally. I just meant NU is better in mat sci just like CMU > NU in CS and ECE.</p>
<p>galwaymum,</p>
<p>You don't need to stir things up. I was simply proving CMU isn't better in <em>every</em> engineering field. CMU is better in more engineering fields but not every single one. If you can't comprehend argument and analysis, have no arguments to add and just pop up to ridicule people, maybe you should be the one to go away.</p>
<p>rkao: I can't speak to the other two schools, but we visited CMU this past week. It's definitely an intense place. I asked one of the students if she was happy there and she said yes. I asked why she liked it, and she said it was because everyone there was so into what they were studying. I asked about campus-wide parties (as opposed to a few friends getting together in a dorm room), and she said there really weren't many. Sometimes a frat will throw a party, but not often. Contrast this with Lehigh where there is an official party every weekend. The student body at CMU for the most part looked a bit geeky. Not too many prom queen types. I saw many of these at other schools we visited - Bucknell and Lehigh to name two of them. I toured the campus on both Sunday and Monday. On Sunday there was hardly anybody in the gym and exercise rooms. However, we attended a presentation for newly admitted computer science students at CMU. The average starting salary for graduates was 30K higher than the average starting salary of CS graduates at any of the other schools we visited. The main question to answer is where do you fit in? Do you want to work your tail off in school and in your first job and become a leader in your industry, or do you want to have a more relaxed college experience and perhaps a less intense job? When people make quotes about top jobs on these web sites they are forgetting to mention that working in I Banking on Wall Street comes with considerable pressure and long hours that you won't find working in a small town bank, for example. The high salary doesn't come with no strings attached. The same is true for computer science and engineering. I saw it in my generation. I worked for HP at a reasonable job with a reasonable salary. I never did anything particularly state-of-the-art (in fact I started in marketing), but I had a life outside of work. I traveled, I participated in a lot of sports, I went to movies, etc. I had time to get my masters degree while working. Some of my friends worked at start-up companies and had very long hours and often worked weekends for many, many years. They created some incredible products. Some of them got incredibly rich; some didn't. Do I regret following the path I chose? No way. Do they regret their choice. No way (for sure, not the rich ones). Just different people.</p>
<p>Anyway, pay close attention to what people post about U Mich and Northwestern on their boards. I suspect U Mich has a greater variety of people because it is so large. If you think you might want a little balance in your life (or you're not sure) then it might be a better place for you. If you are so jazzed about your intended major that you want to live and breathe it, you belong at CMU.</p>
<p>So sorry Sammy. Not going anywhere.</p>
<p>ricegal that's not a bad assessment of cmu but you have to be careful about generalization. Lots of people at CMU have a good social life with substantial partying (my S was in a fraternity, had a great time, worked hard when necessary but also worked hard at having a life for himself outside of class as did his many friends). My point is it is entirely possible to strike a balance at CMU.</p>
<p>You probably saw no one in the gym Sunday because their Spring Carnival weekend was this past Thurs, Fri and Sat. I think working out might be the last thing on their minds.</p>
<p>In computer science the jobs were on the coasts and not so much in the midwest. That's where the firms are. But lots of kids going to Redmond and Silicone Valley, NY and Boston.</p>
<p>FYI: Major Employers for Northwestern grads – Graduating Class of 2005
Three or more students accepted positions with these firms. (source: NU UCS)</p>
<p>ABN AMRO
Accenture
Allstate Insurance Company
American Airlines, Inc.
Argonne National Laboratory
Bain & Company
Beghou Consulting
Booz Allen & Hamilton
Boston Consulting Group
Deloitte Consulting
DiamondCluster International
Epic Systems Corporation
General Electric
General Mills
Goldman Sachs
Harris Nesbitt
Hewitt Associates
Huron Consulting Group
IBM
JP Morgan Chase*
Kraft Foods
Lehman Brothers
L.E.K. Consulting
Marakon Associates
McKinsey & Company
McMaster-Carr Supply Company
Medtronic
Mercer Management Consulting
Merrill Lynch
Microsoft
Morgan Stanley
Morningstar, Inc.
Northern Trust Corporation
Northrop Grumman Corporation
Philips (Royal Philips Electronics)
PRTM (Pittiglio, Rabin, Todd, and McGrath)
Robert W. Baird & Company
SIG (Susquehanna International Group)
Starcom Worldwide
Stockamp & Associates
Target Corporation
William Blair & Company</p>
<p>Sam Lee,</p>
<p>The recently released 2008 USN&WR graduate ranking for overall engineering (all majors included) is as follows:</p>
<p>1 Massachusetts Institute of Technology
2 Stanford University (CA)
3 University of California Berkeley
4 Georgia Institute of Technology
5 University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign
6 Carnegie Mellon University (PA)
7 California Institute of Technology
7 University of Southern California (Viterbi)
9 University of Michigan Ann Arbor
10 Cornell University (NY)
11 University of Texas Austin
12 Purdue University West Lafayette (IN)
13 University of California San Diego (Jacobs)
14 Texas A&M University College Station (Look)
14 University of Wisconsin Madison
16 University of California Los Angeles (Samueli)
16 University of Maryland College Park (Clark)
18 Princeton University (NJ)
19 Columbia University (Fu Foundation) (NY) </p>
<h1>19 University of California Santa Barbara </h1>
<p>21 Northwestern University (McCormick) (IL) </p>
<p>I personally don't give too much weight to magazine rankings (especially those with poor methodology like USN&WR) , but, in any case, since you seem to care so much about rankings, how can you claim, based on the list above, that Northwestern's engineering school (#21) is more prestigious than CMU's (#6) ? BTW, the gap is smaller for undergraduate engineering, but still favors CMU.</p>
<p>Hey, way to put words into other people's mouths. I didn't claim NU's engineering school is more prestigious. I said couple departments are ranked better. They are mat sci, biomed, and industrial. Since you apparently have a copy, you can easily verify that's correct. I have made it pretty clear all along that CMU is better overall in engineering and has larger number of higher ranked departments. I don't see how you could possibly be confused. </p>
<p>The overall ranking has a lot of flaws. Two significant categories favor those with either strong EE or large EE department (relative to other depts within that engineering school) or both: fraction of faculty in NAE and research expenditure per faculty. NAE loves granting membership to EE professors. EE projects tend to be more expensive than, say, environmental or industrial engg projects. They are the reasons why USC appears to be on par with CMU even it has no individual department in the top-10.</p>
<p>Just pointing something out- of course NU's industrial engineering is better ranked- CMU doesn't have industrial engineering. You'd have to rather silly to come to CMU expecting a good industrial engineering program. Also, if you want to devote yourself exclusively to biomed, CMU is the wrong place- it is only available as a second major.</p>