Northwestern HPME Part 2

<p>The question of which program is “best” is very subjective. If one is judging based on rank alone, WashU (12&3) has the highest combined Undergraduate and Medical School Ranking, respectively. After that, it would be Northwestern HPME (12&19) and Rice/Baylor(17&17). Moreover, WashU also has the highest ranked Medical School (#3). In the same scope, all three medical schools have extremely high match percentages (in terms of 1st selections) and are all considered “top tiered” medical school. In my opinion, rank is often not the best criteria to base which school is best because all of them are equally good (this statement only reflects WashU, Baylor, HPME; and excludes, PLME, Case Western, Union, etc. which are at a different echelon of ranks). Also, ranks change through time (a note about this below).</p>

<p>If one judges based on selectivity, many of the other programs are more selective than WashU and HPME, but are not as well known. One, for example, is REMS (Rochester University’s), which has a very few students allowed to matriculate. The selection percentage is another category that is very hard to access. Brown’s PLME has an open application for anyone that even wants to remotely try, thus has an incredibly large applicant pool. However, this also allows for many students to be accepted that–in my opinion–are under-qualified or lack the same passion for medicine. Furthermore, to complicate the matter even more, Northwestern HPME has a three/four tiered “weeding out” system (application request card, undergraduate application/acceptance, medical school application, medical school interview). When determining the acceptance percentage, which number of applicants should be used: The number of applicants requesting an HPME application or those who receive the application? I would say REMS has the fewest number of applicants and HPME has the lowest acceptance percentages.</p>

<p>Also, it is important to remember special criteria and demands from each program. USC is extremely difficult to enter out-of-state. Likewise, CUNY Brooklyn Honors Program essentially only accepts from NY State Residents. While the applicant pool may be small, the selection criteria will be stricter (because they can only accept 2-5 students each year, each one with FULL ride and stipends). Each program thus becomes unique. I believe programs willing to give all students (all states, nationalities, and international status) an equal chance are the hardest.</p>

<p>I believe the rank should be based on the quality of the students and the process. Overall, I would place Northwestern HPME as the highest because of which schools matriculating students will turn down to go there (pretty much all acceptances have multiple admissions to HYPSM). After that, I would say Rice/Baylor, Case Western, WashU, REMS, and PLME; in order. Although I am impartial towards HPME, I can say that I turned down all other colleges (All 8 Ivys) and programs (as listed in this post) to come here. </p>

<p>Lastly, be careful not to get caught up with rankings and matching. I know a recently entering PLME student who chose to enter simply due to a good matching report and what other people told him or her. But, in the end, things constantly change. Everyone applying now has 3 or 4 years until even entering medical school. It is the rank and prestige that matters when you graduate from medical school.</p>

<p>In terms of the process for HPME, a few select number of students are chosen directly by Dr. Green based on impeccable scores, application, essay, legacy, and interview. These students are often those with some connection to Feinberg (parent, sibling, incredible donation) and/or have an unique hook (cured cancer, USAMO/BO, Intel finalist, etc). After that, the decision lies primarily on the interview. Faculty, M4, and M2 interviewers will give their evaluations on each student in a written report. M2 interviewers will go even farther to be part of a committee solely to run the process: they will weed out bad applicants and meet with Dr. Green directly to decide. At the end of the interview process (and sometimes, meetings in between), all the M2 interviewers will come together and argue for their respective applicants. They will essentially debate each other on behalf of their applicants. Many times these will get heated as interviewers will personally feel strongly about their interviewees. Moreover, they will compare each applicant to one another, such that all applicants who interviewed with M2-X will be ranked accordingly. This evaluation by the M2 along with an agreement with Dr. Green will decide a bulk of the admissions. Lastly, a very select number of students (1-2) each year will be accepted SOLELY based on passion for medicine. These are the students with sub-2000 SAT scores, week essays, but mind-blowing interviews. Often, they have done something medically relevant in the past as an extracurricular to bring perspective into what medicine is really about. Some things of notes, from what I have heard from the past, are starting a national non-profit organization raising millions a year during high school, creating a EMT service and assisting the fire department, and sitting on a government public health committee making decisions affecting countless children. These admissions are special because it looks at potential instead of solely application stats. And yes, all decisions are made final by Dr. Green that Admissions Director; albeit a lot of input is from others.</p>

<p>The process is long and arduous on both sides. We want you to come to Feinberg and represent us well. One day, we will all be from the state institutions of medicine and would like you to reflect well on us. </p>

<p>Also, to all the interviewees sitting in Method Atrium, nine in the morning waiting with your parents, cheer up! It’s not that bad. We won’t bite, I swear.</p>

<p>Thanks! I agree with you that Northwestern HPME is one of the better programs out there and I know that when I visited and interviewed for the program, I definitely felt that I wanted to be there on campus for next year. Again, thanks for the feedback.</p>

<p>I received a letter from ISP (integrated science program) at Northwestern today even though I expressed no interest in the program (I do want to be a doctor though, if that makes any difference). My counselor said that this was a recruitment letter. Does anyone know if she is right?</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

<p>I don’t know if it is a recruitment letter. Did you interview for the HPME program? I was wondering what the ramifications of this was for the HPME program. Does this mean I am likely not to get into the program?</p>

<p>Any thoughts would be appreciated.</p>

<p>I don’t understand how can you say you didn’t get into the HPME program since decisions aren’t released until April. In response to your question, I did interview. I have no idea about how ISP and HPME work. I think you can be a part of both.</p>

<p>Thanks. Maybe I just overthought it. Anyway, good luck with ISP(if you apply) and HPME.</p>

<p>I got the ISP letter, too, and interviewed at HPME a few weeks back. I could be mistaken, but I believe it may have been sent to most candidates who applied to Weinberg and indicated they’d like to study science during their undergraduate years?</p>

<p>from looking at posts from past years, the ISP email is sent to engineers and science people… it’s not a likely</p>

<p>wildcat, you really know a lot about the process!
Hopefully I make the cut. We’ll have to wait and see I guess.</p>

<p>Wldcats2012,</p>

<p>Thanks for all the awesome posts! I have a question.</p>

<p>You said:</p>

<p>“…Lastly, a very select number of students (1-2) each year will be accepted SOLELY based on passion for medicine. These are the students with sub-2000 SAT scores, week essays, but mind-blowing interviews…”</p>

<p>But how do the applicants with low scores and weak essays get an interview?</p>

<p>I don’t know who wldcats2012 is, but they have never been part of the HPME selection process and know nothing about it. second year students are not part of the committee. this used to happen in the old days but not any more. now they are involved during the interview day by hosting lunch with the group of interviewees. They write down their thoughts on paper and put them in each student’s file. The fourth year students interview now. When i went through the process, it used to be the second years that interviewed and maybe that is why wldcats2012 said what he did, but that hasn’t been the case for about 4 years.
The final decisions about who gets in are made by a selection committee. i was on this committee as a fourth year student. there are also about 6 or 8 faculty members and two other fourth years. Dr. Green runs the meeting and all interviewees are discussed and ranked openly. there is no select group of special students that get in because of legacy or anything else that I know of. I wouldn’t know how Green would do that as the rank list is made by the whole committee and shared with everyone who interviewed. I also have no clue what it means when you say kids with poor essays and poor academics will get in. they probably wouldn’t get an interview even if they did have stellar medical experience.
Just thought I’d tell it like it really is! Good luck to everyone who got an interview!</p>

<p>@hpme2009
Yea, the process you described is more like what they told me at the interviews. The 2nd years said they have very little influence</p>

<p>Whatever the details of selection process are, wildcat did gave us some insights. Still,from what i can gather, it’s hard to “read” the NW interviewers’ mind, so good luck to all!</p>

<p>I’ll rebut and explain my words and my views: </p>

<p>HPME2009 is correct in ascertaining that I have not fully gone through the whole section processes, as of yet. Throughout my posts and my PM to numerous students, I have replied that I am currently going through the same process but I am on the other side of things (as an M2). So, yes, I am part of this selection process; but no, I am not 100% knowledgeable of process in its entirety. All this was typed with the initial disclaimer that I am not some admissions director nor insider; I am simply someone who felt that he or she had something to contribute back to board (because I benefited from this very thread in the past). My information can be inaccurate, but it is something I believe is true myself, thus willing to share with you all.</p>

<p>Secondly, most of the information I present is from those who have gone through the process before me and my own personal experiences. I would not be able to make-up such an elaborate lie while citing specifics, if I were not in love with the program and the school. I am proud of my undergraduate alma matar, my current medical school, and my program: I provide as much insight as I can so that others after have an easier time applying, as I did when I was applying/reading these boards. Everything I have stated has been from stories and information directly from those who were part of medical school before me. I will not state my connections to these sources, but they were credible. He or she was a graduate Feinberg class of 2009 and was selected as an M2 in spring of 2007 to help aid in the process. HPME2009, if I correctly guess, would have been his or her graduating classmate. Lastly, my own M2 interviewer-in 2005-also provided me with details once I was admitted into the program back in my senior year of college. The process was very similar to that of which I would hear later in college. Nothing I have stated, to the best of my knowledge, has been false or purposefully stated with bad intentions or misdirection. Also, I will not reveal my own identity nor my source(s).</p>

<p>Finally, in terms of the legacy standing and “select” students set aside, I have two things to state. First, legacy was never grounds for automatic admission and were not included into this select students I will mention later. Instead, I brought up legacy (along with a solid hook, etc.) as things that will help ensure someone to get a solid lock onto an admission spot. Northwestern (and also with HPME) is notorious for loving legacy students. In my class and in the below me, there have been <em>at least</em> 5-6 students who entered AFTER an older sibling/family member was part of the program (graduated or still attending). While, once again, this does not guarantees admission and correlation does not equal causation, there is a visible presence of legacy students (On the other hand, it can be debated, that there are more legacy students back then because younger siblings will apply in a larger percentage because they know about this program, especially 5-6 years ago when it was not as well known as it is today). Due to this trend, it was my understanding (along with few other HPMErs in my year that I have talked to) that legacy must get a certain leverage or second-looking over of. </p>

<p>In response to the second accusation, this was something also heard and discussed from upperclassmen. And while many times people state “not to believe everything you hear,” after hearing this ‘theory,’ I believed it was both plausible and possibly likely. Two of my friends/classmates (not many), who are currently in my class, were not accepted to any other top-tier schools or programs, did not have 1550/2300+ SATs, and had mediocre scores; however, during their interviews, they stated the main emphasis was placed on their medically-related E.C.s. While “poor grades” may have been a mis-writing on my part, I simply meant it was lower compared to the average scores that everyone seems to boast/worry about. After seeing the caliber of the students accepted and that of some applicants who were accepted and went to other programs/schools, it was a belief that I felt was strongly accurate enough to comfortably state here. I also distinctly remember hearing about something similar when I was in undergraduate, and being quite surprised about it (and having a “ah-ha!” moment); a M1 in the class below me also believed this could be possible after talking with his friends.</p>

<p>It is not without a doubt that other HPMErs and Feinberg students will browse this board. In the thread history, I see many other familiar names and monkiers (Terrance L., Jon L., Alex S., etc. to name a few currently enrolled in different years). Fully knowing this cross-checking that could easily happen, I would not purposely risk any fool-play and lie on a message board. I hope this clears up any confusions, especially to the accusations made towards me, and that readers will still read the advice I provide (albeit, as pointed out, it may be outdated). I apologize if anything is no longer accurate, but will-like always-only report it as I see or believe it myself. I’ll do my best to update both my understanding of the process and yours. :)</p>

<p>was it just me…or was dr. greens interview by far the toughest? my faculty one and M4 went fairly well…at least i think so.</p>

<p>I thought they were all on about the same level, but I was prepared for Dr. Green because I had talked to a current HPME student who told me about her</p>

<p>dr. chada was like the greatest guy i have met and that interview was like the most amazing interview I have ever had in my life. faculty like him and his way of teaching makes me want to go to NW even more.</p>

<p>do we have to send mid-year reports to the Med School, my counselor just sent it to the Undergrad?!?!?!?!?</p>

<p>You have to send it to both the undergrad and the med school. Apparently communication between the two schools isn’t very strong.</p>

<p>what!?! I didn’t send anything more to the med school!</p>

<p>plus, i just checked the website, it didn’t say anything about a midyear report</p>