Northwestern v Dartmouth?

College Search & Selection
21

<p>If you offer this choice to someone in Boston or NYC, the answer is obvious-Dartmouth!</p>

<p>If you offer this choice to someone in Chicago, the answer is obvious-Northwestern!</p>

<p>If you offer this choice to the rest of the country, the choice is truly a toss-up and completely comes down to what you like, don't like, and are looking for in a college. Dartmouth is a great choice, but really needs to be visited to appreciate how far it is from a major city and whether this environment will be sufficiently stimulating for four years (which Dartmouth does a good job of allaying by requiring at least one summer in Hanover and also a quarter system that lets one do internships in NYC and elsewhere, perhaps during the sometimes brutal winter term).</p>

<p>Northwestern is a really terrific school and IMO probably does not get the national recognition that it deserves. The D1 athletic life is a differentiator between what is available at these two schools as the Big Ten is a far cry from the Ivy League. Northwestern competes well in the non-revenue sports (especially the women's sports) and provides an attractive athletic and social scene for a bigger event like a Big Ten football game. For the arts, Dartmouth's Hopkins Center does a surprisingly good job of attracting good entertainment while this is probably one of Northwestern's great strengths. </p>

<p>Nearby Chicago is definitely part of the attraction for Northwestern and nothing is similarly available at Dartmouth. Conversely, Dartmouth's Skiway and easy access to a variety of outdoor activities significantly impact and differentiate the undergraduate experience in Hanover. </p>

<p>Both great schools with lots of great students with scads of post-graduate opportunities. One should be so lucky to have the choice between these two.</p>

22

<p>I can't believe the difference in SAT median between Dartmouth and Northwestern is 5 points. When I was applying to colleges, the difference was ~ 60 points. It's interesting that if the SAT is so close that the acceptance rate at Northwestern is close to double. I would personally favor Dartmouth; especially if you are coming from or returning to the northeast.</p>

23

<p>gellino,
I was also struck by Northwestern's sharp recent improvement in SAT scores. Frankly, I have always seen the quality of these students bodies as roughly similar, but certainly now more than ever.</p>

<p>As for the difference in acceptance rate, no doubt in my mind that it is prestige seekers and the allure of the Ivy League label. Take Dartmouth out of the Ivy League and its acceptance rate probably goes to the level of...Duke or Rice (low 20s) or even Emory, Tufts, and Vanderbilt. But realistically, I don't see much difference in the student quality at any of these top colleges.</p>

24

<p>In the past, I would have considered there to be a difference in the student quality between Dartmouth and Northwestern. When I was going to school, the SAT avg of Colgate and Middlebury were slightly higher than that of Northwestern and this no longer appears to be the case. </p>

<p>I don't think it's so much seeking out the Ivy League (although that probably is part of it) as an exodus away from rural schools towards urban schools with the renaissance of the American cities in the last decade. Within the Ivy League, it appears that the SAT avg and acceptance rate in the last 10-15 years has improved much more at Columbia and Penn than at Dartmouth and Cornell.</p>

25

<p>gellino,
I have some old data from the 1998 USNWR. Below are the SAT 25/75 scores for the colleges in today's USNWR Top 25 and how their SAT scores have changed over the past decade. </p>

<p>Nice memory on how the schools compared back then as it does look like Northwestern, based on the mid-point of the SAT 25/75 range, picked up 50 vs Dartmouth. Also, on this measurement, Columbia and U Penn have clearly outperformed Dartmouth and Cornell although I'm not entirely sure that the urban/rural comparison is what drove this. Houston-based Rice stayed flat during this period and sort-of-rural Notre Dame gained significantly. </p>

<p>Here are the full numbers:</p>

<p>Change in SAT Mid-Point 1998-2009 , 2009 SAT 25 2009 SAT 75 , 1998 SAT 25 1998 SAT 75 , College</p>

<p>150 , 1370 - 1530 , 1200 - 1400 , Wash U
85 , 1300 - 1480 , 1200 - 1380 , Vanderbilt
85 , 1300 - 1510 , 1220 - 1400 , Notre Dame
70 , 1350 - 1520 , 1250 - 1430 , NORTHWESTERN
65 , 1330 - 1530 , 1270 - 1460 , U Penn
60 , 1340 - 1540 , 1290 - 1480 , Duke
60 , 1330 - 1530 , 1280 - 1480 , Brown
60 , 1300 - 1490 , 1230 - 1430 , Georgetown
55 , 1360 - 1540 , 1280 - 1480 , Columbia
50 , 1330 - 1530 , 1280 - 1470 , U Chicago
50 , 1180 - 1430 , 1130 - 1360 , UCLA
45 , 1300 - 1470 , 1250 - 1430 , Emory
40 , 1290 - 1490 , 1260 - 1450 , Carnegie Mellon
30 , 1390 - 1580 , 1350 - 1550 , Princeton
30 , 1400 - 1590 , 1360 - 1550 , Yale
25 , 1340 - 1550 , 1310 - 1520 , Stanford
20 , 1330 - 1550 , 1340 - 1520 , DARTMOUTH
20 , 1290 - 1500 , 1270 - 1470 , Johns Hopkins
20 , 1220 - 1470 , 1180 - 1430 , UC Berkeley
20 , 1200 - 1420 , 1210 - 1400 , U Virginia
15 , 1380 - 1560 , 1370 - 1540 , MIT
15 , 1470 - 1580 , 1430 - 1580 , Caltech
5 , 1400 - 1590 , 1390 - 1580 , Harvard
0 , 1290 - 1500 , 1240 - 1530 , Cornell
0 , 1310 - 1530 , 1330 - 1540 , Rice</p>

26

<p>Formula error above resulted in some slight computational errors. Change between Northwestern and Dartmouth was even greater. Correct numbers are:</p>

<pre><code>Change in SAT 25/75 Mid-Point , College , 2009 SAT 25 - 2009 SAT 75 ( 2009 Mid-Point ) 1998 SAT 25 - 1998 SAT 75 ( 1998 Mid-Point )

150 , Wash U , 1370 - 1530 ( 1450 ) , 1200 - 1400 ( 1300 )
100 , Vanderbilt , 1300 - 1480 ( 1390 ) , 1200 - 1380 ( 1290 )
95 , NORTHWESTERN , 1350 - 1520 ( 1435 ) , 1250 - 1430 ( 1340 )
95 , Notre Dame , 1300 - 1510 ( 1405 ) , 1220 - 1400 ( 1310 )
70 , Columbia , 1360 - 1540 ( 1450 ) , 1280 - 1480 ( 1380 )
65 , U Penn , 1330 - 1530 ( 1430 ) , 1270 - 1460 ( 1365 )
65 , Georgetown , 1300 - 1490 ( 1395 ) , 1230 - 1430 ( 1330 )
60 , UCLA , 1180 - 1430 ( 1305 ) , 1130 - 1360 ( 1245 )
55 , Duke , 1340 - 1540 ( 1440 ) , 1290 - 1480 ( 1385 )
55 , U Chicago , 1330 - 1530 ( 1430 ) , 1280 - 1470 ( 1375 )
50 , Brown , 1330 - 1530 ( 1430 ) , 1280 - 1480 ( 1380 )
45 , Emory , 1300 - 1470 ( 1385 ) , 1250 - 1430 ( 1340 )
40 , Yale , 1400 - 1590 ( 1495 ) , 1360 - 1550 ( 1455 )
40 , UC Berkeley , 1220 - 1470 ( 1345 ) , 1180 - 1430 ( 1305 )
35 , Princeton , 1390 - 1580 ( 1485 ) , 1350 - 1550 ( 1450 )
35 , Carnegie Mellon , 1290 - 1490 ( 1390 ) , 1260 - 1450 ( 1355 )
30 , Stanford , 1340 - 1550 ( 1445 ) , 1310 - 1520 ( 1415 )
25 , Johns Hopkins , 1290 - 1500 ( 1395 ) , 1270 - 1470 ( 1370 )
20 , Caltech , 1470 - 1580 ( 1525 ) , 1430 - 1580 ( 1505 )
15 , MIT , 1380 - 1560 ( 1470 ) , 1370 - 1540 ( 1455 )
10 , Harvard , 1400 - 1590 ( 1495 ) , 1390 - 1580 ( 1485 )
10 , DARTMOUTH , 1330 - 1550 ( 1440 ) , 1340 - 1520 ( 1430 )
10 , Cornell , 1290 - 1500 ( 1395 ) , 1240 - 1530 ( 1385 )
5 , U Virginia , 1200 - 1420 ( 1310 ) , 1210 - 1400 ( 1305 )
-15 , Rice , 1310 - 1530 ( 1420 ) , 1330 - 1540 ( 1435 )
</code></pre>

27

<p>I also think the draw to urban campuses is a large part of Penn and Columbia's rise. I'd love to see the numbers for NYU which seems to have had a dramatic rise in the quality of students in the last decade.</p>

28

<p>It seems like smaller schools have also been more out of favor. I would doubt that any of the top 25 LACs have even gained 50 points in that timeframe; depending on timing of the switching to SAT-optional policies at places like Bowdoin, Middlebury, Hamilton.</p>

29

<p>
[quote]
instead it was dominated by Big 10 sports and frats

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yeah, Dartmouth is not at all known for its "frat culture".</p>

<p>Can't go wrong w/ either school - one should certainly think which school is a better "fit" (personally, having spent a considerable amount of time at NE LACs, I would have gone stir-crazy being stuck in Hanover; but other people like the whole "small college town thing").</p>

<p>As for the whole standardized scores thing - should it matter that NU has slightly higher ACT scores than Dartmouth?</p>

<p>At this level - such small differences are really meaningless.</p>

30

<p>Basically,</p>

<p>Ivy League (for CC it matters) vs Chicago</p>

31

<p>^^some people just like to unfairly characterize or even put down schools to justify their choice. Most NU students don't know how their non-FB teams are doing. Many students go to see the FB games but many also don't. Their stadium is far from full most of the time and it's not even a huge stadium like those in other Big 10 schools. Saying it's "dominated by Big 10 sports" is like saying everyone in NYC works on Wall St... </p>

<p>It's ridiculous to me someone would complaint about "dominance of frats" in school A while choosing school B with even <em>larger</em> percentage of frats.</p>

32

<p>^ Btw, the #9 ranked men's soccer team did have 1,300 people attending its game on Friday (pretty impressive for soccer).</p>

33

<p>dartmouth is a much better school in terms of prestige and strength of the average member of the student body. northwestern is a great school too though--why not apply to both, and then decide which you like more?</p>

34

<p>"Better school in terms in terms of ... strength of the average member of the student body" Dcircle please read the whole thread before commenting. People on this thread put in the effort to provide actual information on this point. The hard evidence shows that your statement is incorrect.</p>

35

<p>Here are Dartmouth's updated numbers from a press release today. The USNEWS data is always a year outdated. Dartmouth's apps went up 16.7% last year (second among the Ivies, Harvard also had a big year).</p>

<p>The Class of 2012: Profile</p>

<p>There will be approximately 1,096 new members of the Class of 2012 among the nearly 4,000 students attending classes on campus this fall. Dartmouth received 16,538 applications for the entering class from students across the country, the largest application pool in the College's history.</p>

<p>The incoming class is made up of 50.5 percent male and 49.5 percent female. More than half - 58.9 percent attended - public school; 35.9 percent attended private school and the remaining 5.2 percent attended parochial school.</p>

<p>Slightly more than a quarter of the students, 27.1 percent, hail from the Mid-Atlantic region of the U.S. while 19.4 percent come from the West Coast; 19.1 percent from New England; 15 percent from the South; 11.4 percent from the Midwest and 8 percent - or 88 students - have a non-U.S. address.</p>

<p>Asian-American students make up the largest ethnic group of the incoming class at 14.3 percent. African-American students are at 9.2 percent; 7.9 percent are Latino; 3.9 percent are Native American and 0.8 percent are classified as multiracial.</p>

<p>Dartmouth has 150 students, or 13.7 percent of the incoming class, are the first in their families to attend college.</p>

<p>Academically the class is one of the strongest first-year classes to enter the institution with enrollees sporting a median SAT Verbal score of 730, a median SAT Math score of 740 and a median SAT Writing score of 730. Of those ranked, 90 percent of the incoming class graduated in the top 10 percent of their high school class; 29 percent were valedictorians and 10.2 were salutatorians.</p>

<p>This class is also the first to attend under Dartmouth's restructured financial aid program. Beginning with this academic year, all students from families with incomes of $75,000 or less will receive free tuition. Many will also receive scholarships for associated costs of attendance, such as room, board, books, and miscellaneous expenses. Other changes to financial aid include replacing loans with scholarships and a fully need-blind admissions process for international students.</p>

<p>This year, 47.5 percent of the class is receiving scholarship assistance, totaling over $17 million. The average scholarship award for members of the Class of 2012 is $33,240.</p>

36

<p>No school is "much better" than another within the top-20. It's irresponsible and dishonest to use such words.</p>

37

<p>
[quote]
dartmouth is a much better school in terms of prestige...

[/quote]
</p>

<p>In the NE, perhaps. In the rest of the world, highly unlikely....</p>

38

<p>
[quote]
Check out Slipper 1234 other posts before putting too much stock in his/her post. Clearly has a Dartmouth-centric view of things.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That'd be the understatement of the century.</p>

39

<p>sorry--much better is an exaggeration. both schools are strong and will give you a great academic experience. in my opinion, dartmouth is stronger and there is general consensus that dartmouth gets the edge in prestige (which i thought was the point of this thread).</p>

<p>nobody who matters though will think less of a northwestern graduate standing next to a dartmouth graduate</p>

40

<p>Thanks for the input, everyone. =]</p>

<p>Do you guys put much value in the Princeton Review rankings? Northwestern doesn't have much besides ranking in "Best Newspaper" and Dartmouth is 20th in "Dissatisfied with Financial Aid". Other schools like Wash U and Brown do much better in the rankings.</p>