<p>Not necessarily true, according to following article, the more diverse campuses have less of binge drinking. Since most of the top elite colleges are diverse and there is much more probability that students from those colleges will go on to be rich and successful.</p>
<p>On the other hand quoting from the article:
</p>
<p>which means people that go on to be poor and looser.</p>
<p>Just accompanied D on a visit to a “party school” (as per Princeton Review’s list). Met up at noon with a U freshman who graduated from D’s high school last May; this kid was a partier in high school.</p>
<p>This freshman told D that she actually was not having much fun at college “because she has to study.” I laughed. Studying was NOT what this freshman thought she was signing up for!</p>
<p>Back in Sept our student went to Ga Tech for a “recruiting” weekend–
the host had a blow out party–beer, vodka rum etc…
Our student sat in a corner, texting a friend in the next building over about the situation–and our student was playing playstation…The college kids got really obnoxious…
OUr student left the suite and joined another friend at a nearby dorm where the kids were hanging out talking…</p>
<p>I mentioned this bad situation to a neighbor and she tells me that her daughter had a similar situation at a recruiting weekend at Georgetown…</p>
<p>I really wish AdComs and Coaches would clamp down on this behavior…</p>
<p>Pay attention to the information on secondary-effects experienced at higher binge drinking schools.</p>
<p>To find information is really a school by school process. You have to take a school and start googling for terms like “alcohol poisoning” and “binge drinking”. Find the school newspaper and google the archives for those terms plus “alcohol” and “drinking”. Look up the student health center materials. Colleges trying to implement a “social norms” campaign will often publish their stats. </p>
<p>You’ll find a lot of links about drinking at the heavy binge drinking schools, because it will be causing serious problems on campus and for the administrators. For example, my alma mater closed its 24/7 Health Center on nights and weekends after the semester with 50+ alcohol poisoning transports because the attending physicians practice simply refused to continue exposing themselves to the risk of that situation. They blamed it on the cost of their malpractice insurance, but a dean was quoted as saying there wasn’t any amount of insurance coverage the college could pay for that would get the doctors to change their decision. When a college has issues like that, you’ll find the trail.</p>
<p>If you are not finding anything, it may well be a low-binge drinking school. My daughter’s college was at the low end of the scale. They averaged 0 to 3 alcohol transports a year. So, you’d find the occasional article about those. A couple of times a year, some kid would mouth off to a local policemen and get cited for underage drinking. Overall, there weren’t committees being formed, consultants hired, and the signs of a major problem. Just the isolated incident here or there. There was plenty of drinking – alcohol is widely and openly available at parties there. But, when two-thirds of your students haven’t had five drinks on one occasion in the last two weeks, the overall feeling is one of much more moderate drinking, especially when the heavier drinking is occurring at known events and parties where students can either choose to go or not.</p>
<p>What, you seriously think that kids at “better” schools don’t drink? Or that rich students don’t drink? Or that alcoholics aren’t found in well-to-do homes? You’re incorrect.</p>
<p>OMG. That is awful. Absolutely reprehensible. The hosts should be expelled from the school. Is this Williams? I’m not sure of your alma mater, interesteddad.</p>
<p>No, I never said that I just refuted the post which linked “binge drinking” to " rich and successful".</p>
<p>I just provided the reasoning and proof that it is not the case while it can be more accurately link “binge drinking” to " Vandalism and sexual assault".</p>
<p>A student is Rich because of his/her parent and not that (s)he will become rich and successful.</p>
<p>Those who induldge in consistent binge drinking are most likely to take down their Rich parent along with them instead of becoming successful.</p>
<p>I think this is complicated though. If your student HATES drinking scenes, I can see how the party schools might be difficult to adapt to, although I believe that it would be easier to find non-drinking niches at larger schools. </p>
<p>But what if a student thinks drinking is appealing? Before you start talking about how this is influenced by parents, let me say that I know of one kid in our community who is looking to make a decision (he’s a senior). It’s fairly well known that he is a drinker…although I’m not sure his parents are aware (he’s the brother of one my son’s buddies) Both parents don’t drink! And are pretty strict from what I can tell. Anyway, does his choice impact his later habits in college? I would think he would find the drinking scene at most schools…most have them. Or is he more likely to head to the extremes if he goes to a school where binge drinking is more common? Just wondering. I tend to think the kid will find drinking wherever he goes!</p>
<p>POIH, when you hold for equal ability studies indicate there is no significant difference in future income levels between students that go to elite schools and those that go to other schools like state flagships.</p>
<p>As a current college student who considers herself widely traveled (have visited friends at MANY different schools over the years), I agree COMPLETELY with interesteddad. </p>
<p>Look at the binge drinking statistics.</p>
<p>So, a smaller number of students than the # that actually binge drinks is willing to self-report…but the percentage that doesn’t report probably holds relatively constant over various schools, so it can still work well as a comparison tool.</p>
<p>Disciplinary action is also a decent gauge…schools with low percentage of noise and other violations may simply be more “lax” but they’re more lax for a reason…it’s not as big of a problem.</p>
<p>The one statistical item I would caution AGAINST using is alcohol transports, since many schools do not have a “Good Samaritan” policy, preventing students from calling the ambulance on campus or at all for fear of discplinary action. Often these schools are more dangerous for that reason. When our campus instituted a “pseudo” Good Samaritan policy, alcohol transports shot up…more people willing to call, but that doesn’t mean the problem wasn’t there all along.</p>
<p>Finally, in terms of visiting schools, etc. of course you aren’t going to get a good feel for the nightlife/options besides drinking from one weekend. I don’t think visiting to see how crazy the area is is a good indication. Instead, if you’re concerned because the school you’re interested in has a relatively high binge drinking rate, ask yourself how big the campus is (i.e. a large percentage may drink, but that still leaves a huge number of people who don’t), what the surrounding area is like (can students go into the city, etc. for alternate entertainment?), what kind of on-campus/school sponsored activities there are on the weekend, etc. A school with a high percentage binge drinking rate that is small and in the middle of nowhere…well…pass. A school with a high percentage binge drinking rate that is bigger, near a large city, has a lot of on campus things that are well attended…then it may be a great place to be.</p>
<p>There are two inherent logical statements in my post #61.</p>
<ol>
<li>There is more probability that a student from a top elite school endup being rich and successful.</li>
<li>There is more probability that a consistent “binge drinker” induldge in “vandalism and sexual assault” and end up being poor and looser.</li>
</ol>
<p>I think both of them stand on facts and there is ample proof of it.</p>
<p>Now coming to your point. If an elite school has an incoming batch of 1000 compare to state flagship batch of 5000 and both produces 700 rich and successfull people in future.
Then according to my #1 70% for elite school is >> 14% for state flagship.
while equal ability study will put up the figure that 1000/5000 of the state flagship only were equivalent to elite school 1000 students so both will endup having same %.</p>
<p>Many thanks, IDAD! I’ll try to track down the stats for the schools to which my D applied. I think most are ~ok, but Cornell and Bucknell have somewhat of a reputation…</p>
<p>The Harvard studies address both of these issues. There is a very strong correlation between binge-drinking in high school and binge-drinking in college. If I recall, it’s one of the strongest correlations. Although I’ve never really seen it addressed in the studies, my personal opinion is that high binge drinking problems at many schools start with an admissions problem: they are accepting and enrolling too many binge drinkers. It would be very easy for any profession admissions office to enroll a smaller percentage of high school binge drinkers if they were tasked to do so. The problem is that collleges sometimes prioritize certain student qualities that correlate with binge drinking. And, once a college develops a reputation for the euphemism “work hard/play hard”, there’s strong self-selection in the applicant pool, just as there is self-selection among students seeking to avoid blotto drunkeness.</p>
<p>The Harvard studies also show that a non-binge drinker in high school is more likely to become a binge drinker in college at a high-binge drinking rate college than at a low-rate colllege. So, there is clearly and environmental factor at work, too.</p>
<p>IMO, colleges could make a big dent in the problem by simply asking whether applicants drink or whether they have received alcohol infractions in high school. Sure, the kids are going to lie, but it puts the high schools and applicants on notice. Conversely, I would LOVE to see USNEWS include binge drinking rate in their ranking formula. I think we would immediately see how high college presidents can jump to respond to binge drinking rates at that point!</p>
<p>From a campus culture standpont, I’m convinced that the best single move a college can make is to house first year students in dorms with upperclass students, so they have role models of successful, engaged “mature” college students. I think the “freshman ghetto” housing model contributes to a “kids gone wild” scenario with no peer pressure from seniors saying, “knock it off, I’m got a thesis to write…” Freshman-only dorms are often a nightmare. To the extent that non-drinkers or moderate drinkers are a minority, they can find dorm life very disruptive and isolating. Conversely, if the binge drinkers are a minority, then there is social pressure for them to adapt their behavior.</p>
<p>I agree that I would not use this as cut n’ dried statistical measure because there are lots of factors that could impact the number of hospital transports. I’m just saying that if you find a school with a large number of transports and/or published concern over the number of transports, you have strong indication of a serious binge-drinking problem on that campus. Normal drinkers do not consume alcohol to the point of having an ambulance called to transport them to the hospital.</p>
<p>Williams had a night a couple of years ago when the emergency crews had to call in ambulances from surrounding towns because they didn’t have enough to handle the transports. There are no benign explanations for a situation like that. You’ve got a problem.</p>
<p>I would caution in the other direction, too. There are still going to be incidences of alcohol transports and/or citations at low-binge drinking colleges. It helps to do a search of the campus paper over say a three or four year period and total up the reports to try to get some sense. I asked the director of health services at my daughter’s school (during parents orientation) how many transports they had had the previous year and she gave me a straight answer ("None last year, knock on wood. We typically have zero to three a year on average… ") They had a 24/7 infirmary and would keep an intoxicated student overnight IF they were walking under their own power, talking, responsive, and cooperative, so that probably cut the number of transports a bit.</p>
<p>I’ve really about had it with the lack of administrative attention to this problem. Yes, I know that these kids are supposed to be maturing and learning some things for themselves, but my daughter’s top-notch, but big party state U was totally out of control in many of their dorms…starting Wednesday night of each week. One night after an all night party in the hallway, a girl’s head crashed against her closed door, and when my daughter opened her door, the girl was passed out with a head gash up against her door. There is really no excuse for this and the schools could end it.</p>
<p>So Idad, where are the studies that show that drinking in college leads to long-term failures and problems in later life?? While there certainly are short-term negative aspects, I have seen few if any studies showing any negative impacts 10 years after college and there are some indications that the those that tend to heavy drinking like Greeks, seem to do better than average after college when it come to financial success.</p>
<p>That better than average financial success comes in handy to pay for their inpatient rehab treatments in later life. It also helps pay for a driver when their licenses are suspended for DUI in later life.</p>
The post #61 provide the rationale behind why the “non binge drinker” should be more successful and has the link which specifically list the following:
</p>
<p>Can you provide a link to the studies that shows “binge drinker” seems to do better than average after college when it comes to financial success?</p>
<p>It seems counter intuitive that a person who is incapable of stopping after few drinks will be able to make successful financial decisions in life.</p>
<p>Wednesday “party scenes” are a definite “clue”…not good. Ditto Thursday parties. I do like interesteddad’s idea of abolishing the practice of freshman ghettos. I certainly know that as the kids move up through the years they simply don’t “party” as much. No time and the thrill wears off. My high school senior went to visit his (21 yr old) college junior brother last month and the older took the younger to the library Friday night for a couple hours. H and I laughed our butts off over that. They then went to a party or two but were home and in bed by midnight. This from the oldest son who turned my hair prematurely gray over his high school escapades. Who caused me sleepless nights freshman year of college over concern about his merit scholarship…in the library on a Friday night. If they put these wild ass freshman in a dorm with the upper classmen perhaps they wouldn’t be so crazed.</p>
<p>I don’t know about anyone else but as parents, we made it clear to our kids: drinking and/or drugs… we’re outta here, and you’re on your own. An occasional beer or glass of wine is one thing, but the binging, the puke all over, the illegal activity, we won’t condone it, and definitely won’t pay for it.</p>
<p>One of the reasons we had complete disregard for our flagship, Penn State U in Happy Valley is that from Thurs through Sunday, there is vomit on the floor of the dorms - drunk kids everywhere - it’s awful. </p>
<p>So, we’re mean parents, but we won’t pay for that kind of behavior. Our kids know it.</p>