<p>momofthreeboys: My dad, who is an alum of Northeastern University in Boston, told me about an article in their alumni magazine. In the past decade, Northeastern built 6 upperclass residence halls in a new complex. Students loved it. When plans to build the seventh and final building in the complex were announced, it was announced as a freshman dorm. Students in the existing buildings were out in protest! They did not want freshmen living in their community! “Freshmen are obnoxious” was the chant LOL. The protesters said they knew what they were talking about, having been freshmen only a year or two earlier. The administration compromised and made the new dorm a freshman honors dorm, hoping for more academically minded occupants.</p>
<p>Barrons:</p>
<p>The correlation between college binge drinking and adult alcoholism is mixed. As I understand it, there is some correlation, but large percentages of college binge drinkers do not become adult alcoholics. You’d have to check with mini. It’s his field and he’s the expert on that.</p>
<p>Just to be clear. I really don’t give a damn about the binge drinkers. My concern is with the normal students who have to pay $50,000 a year to put up with all that nonsense: the vomiting, the unwanted sexual advances, the noise, and the general feeliing of living and studying with Otis the Town Drunk in the dorm.</p>
<p>In general, there tends to be more binge drinking at wealthier and whiter schools (binge drinking is predominantly a wealthy white kid sport), so that would be the obvious correlation with historic income levels. African American, Asian American, and to a lesser exent Latino/a, students binge drink as signficanly lower rates than white student, much lower in the case of African American and Asian American.</p>
<p>Interestly, some of the notorious Southern party universities (like Florida State) don’t have off-the-charts binge drinking rates. Their rates are held down by higher percentages of non-drinking religious students (observant Southern Baptists and so forth). Florida State’s binge drinking rate, if a I recall, was about the same as Williams or Dartmouth. West Coast schools tend to be lower, too.</p>
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<p>You really don’t have a clue that people can attend state flagships and be perfectly successful in life, do you?
What does being “rich and successful” have anything to do with anything? </p>
<p>Anyway, it really doesn’t matter if the kid in the dorm next door is going to invent something and become really really rich, or scored 2400 on the SAT’s, if he’s disturbing my kid by making noise, vomiting in the hall, or otherwise making his living environment intolerable.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl:
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<p>I understand that and I only depicted that there is more probability for success from a top elite school than from a state flagship.</p>
<p>Certainly it doesn’t matter if the child who induldge in “binge drinking” become rich and successful one day but probability says that the chance of happening that is less than that of a child who is not going to induldge in “binge drinking” everything else remaining the same.</p>
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<p>Depends what you define as success. If you define success as having a decent job, having a nice life and family and being generally content with how things are going, there really isn’t a difference. If you define success as breaking into a certain echelon of achievement in certain fields and achieving a certain level of income, yes, there may be a difference. But that’s too nouveau riche for my taste.</p>
<p>Mini was not able to provide any proof of a continuation of heavy drinking after college and all the long-term drinking studies do not separate out college graduates vs no college. We went around on that several times.</p>
<p>Can we drop the arguments connecting (or not connecting) binge drinking with later financial success? The issue is too serious. We’re talking about kids risking their lives…more and more each year. It seems to be out of control on many campuses. </p>
<p>In any case, I want to point out something. What your kids do and what they SAY they do can be two different things. If you are clearly against binge drinking, do you think they would tell you if they participated? I don’t think so. </p>
<p>While I appreciate that there are concerned parents out there…I think it’s a bit naive to think your student will be fine if sent to a school where binge drinking is not as high as in the big state schools. We have a drop-out in our neighborhood. Someone who flunked out at any Ivy due to excessive drinking. It was a huge surprise to the parents. Wow…drinking at an Ivy? Parents need to be vigilant and IMO…not punitive…if they want honest reports from their kids. </p>
<p>Hey, I can understand not wanting to trip over vomit. Most big schools offer special interest dorms to help students avoid this. It can be done. I know of happy non drinkers at our local flagship. </p>
<p>All that said, I agree that most colleges need to do something about this. Some of idad’s suggestions seem worthy.</p>
<p>^^^: It was the irresponsible comment made by barrons in #41 that led to all my posts.</p>
<p>These comments actually encourage such activities. Many parent like barrons do believe it becuase it is not associated with URM.</p>
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<p>So freakin’ what, barrons? What difference does it make to the local homeowner who wakes up to beer bottles on her lawn and her property trashed, or the student who has to deal with vomit in the hallways, whether the student responsible for those things is going to continue drinking after college or not, or whether the rate is any different among similar-age young adults who aren’t going to college? What does that have to do with anything? It’s about as much of a red herring as the “rich and successful” derailing. What on earth does that have to do with the fact that kids paying $50K a year shouldn’t have to put up with the kind of behavior being described?</p>
<p>I remember going to UW-Madison for Halloween as a freshman. Coming from where I did, I was horrified. It was a bunch of drunks carousing and causing mayhem. Vomiting, obnoxious behavior by people who think that’s a cool way to be. I thought it was immature and silly at age 17 and I think it’s immature and silly now. But, hey, I guess it’s ok in your eyes if a sufficient % of UW-Madison people wind up “rich and successful.”</p>
<p>Amazing how many parents are in denial about their alcoholic offspring. Maybe some just see their kids adolescent behavior as no different from their own.</p>
<p>^^I’m guessing unless the offspring are flunking out the parents don’t know what’s going on.</p>
<p>Interesteddad- That is great advice. I wish I had known to research in such a way before my second son went to college. When he started complaining about how much drinking there is on his campus, we started looking (google) and found many incidents that would have made us take another look. For starters, we found that the assistant dean of students was fired a few years before for drinking with students! I know that one incident is not enough, but there were many, many more, especially in the local papers. He is staying there because the professors are great and knows he has difficulty adjusting so does not want to transfer as a junior, but is planning on graduating in three years. At first we thought it was him, and he needed more than freshmen year to adjust. We wish we knew- all the people we talked to emphasized the college’s community service, the study abroad, ect. Ironically, my son has been intimidated by the drinking culture, has not gotten involved, rather, he just wants to graduate asap, so has thrown himself into studying. Part of this is on him, as there are surely some people who don’t drink, but when you are socially shy, saying “go find people that don’t drink” is not fair. Thanks again for the great advice, I will be using it for the next one!</p>
<p>Well Pizzagirl, if you didn’t enjoy Halloween in Madison you are in the glum minority. There are always people like you who sit on the sidelines and say, “oh my, that’s so immature.” Too bad for you. For many young people for many centuries getting out and getting a little crazy is part of life and they enjoy it. At Madison it used to be riots against the war. Now it has evolved to a big Halloween party. </p>
<p>As for the people who live very close to colleges and complain about some of the impacts–that’s like living next to a freeway and complaining about traffic noise. Did you expect it to be like a quiet suburb? I don’t think it’s something that just appeared in the last 5 years. I don’t like the stuff either but it pretty much goes with the territory. Perhaps you ned some better policing to arrest the worst violators such as those damaging property. Same for drunk-driving in college areas.</p>
<p>The article in the linked list titled “Are College Students Alcoholics” by Brower discusses college drinking and the impact on life after college…</p>
<p>[PACE</a> Project at UW-Madison](<a href=“http://pace.uhs.wisc.edu/data.php]PACE”>http://pace.uhs.wisc.edu/data.php)</p>
<p>Barron’s:</p>
<p>The PACE data for UW-Madison is ugly. This is the impact of a 60%+ binge drinking rate:</p>
<p>Table 7: Students bothered by others’ drinking (second-hand effects) </p>
<p>Been insulted or humiliated 38.3%
Had a serious argument or quarrel 28.4%
Been pushed, hit or assaulted 15.8%
Had property damaged 23.5%
Had to “babysit” a drunken student 67.2%
Had studying/sleep interrupted 62.3%
Experienced an unwanted sexual advance 25.5%
Victim of sexual assault/date rape 1.3%</p>
<p>It’s also sobering to consider that over 40% of the students who drink at UW-Madison report having at least one alcohol blackout.</p>
<p>^^^ Sounds to me like grounds for my daughter to go to college armed with a taser or cattle prod to fend off the drunks! Fortunately, UWi isn’t on her list.</p>
<p>^^Nothing wrong with having fun, but I consider it a failing if “getting crazy” has to involve lots of alcohol and getting wasted, as well as making life unpleasant for people around you and/or local residents. I think UW is a good school in general but no, I was not impressed by hordes of loud-mouthed, obnoxious drunks at Halloween. There’s nothing “fun” about seeing other people drunk.</p>
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<p>Hey! Here’s a concept. Instead of requiring policemen to tell you not to do the obvious like throw beer bottles or trash on people’s lawns, or run down the sidewalks screaming at the top of your lungs, why don’t the students just grow up and behave appropriately?</p>
<p>IDad–alert the media. A shocking discovery–drinking at Wisconsin. What next–surfing at UCSB?</p>
<p>I mean, it’s no big deal if some girl gets groped or assaulted, or there’s a brawl and someone gets hurt, or the little old lady has her garden trampled upon, or kids have to step over vomit in the hallway. Barrons needs to get his par-tay on! You go, boy! Whoo-hoo!</p>
<p>“Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.”</p>
<p>Table 8: Students bothered by others’ surfing (second-hand effects):
I suppose if you’re another surfer and you drop in on someone’s wave, you’re going to feel their displeasure. But generally the surfers don’t interrupt other people’s sleep or study time. </p>
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<p>Yup, all those wild and crazy parties back in the 1700’s with the mead and what-not. Good times! :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Heaven forbid you’re a young person who’d like to get to sleep after just pulling an all-nighter, or who needs to study for a test, or who’d like to quietly watch a movie or read a book, or who is thoroughly grossed out by the bathroom stinking of vomit. Too bad for you; get with the program.</p>