Not-So-Supportive Parents

Parent Cafe
1

<p>I have been stuck in rural Michigan my whole life. Two years ago, I met a foreign exchange student who I dated during his stay, and he has continually been my best friend, thereafter. He is from Dublin, Ireland. Another friend of mine, who was originally from my town, moved to Bray, which is near Dublin. Both of them have said I can stay with them.</p>

<p>The reason I would stay with them is because I wish to go to college there. Ireland's standards of education are much, much higher than America's, and I want to further my education in the best fashion possible. It would cost the same for tuition, even as a non-EU student, as it would for me to go to a moderately large university (example: Central Michigan University.)</p>

<p>I already have worked out all the strings. I know what I have to do to go to school there and the difficulties that there will be with visas. I've contacted the Irish Consulate of Chicago to assist me. I want to get into the field of Ancient/Medieval History and work in a museum or in artifact appraisal. Dublin offers me much more in this field than anywhere here does. Trinity University of Dublin will also offer me a much better education in this area.</p>

<p>I am a very intelligent student. I have ranked first in my AP English class, and I'm always within the top three in my AP History course. I scored a 24 on my ACT without a calculator, the day after a 9-week hospital stay. I'm going to retake it and aim for a 29 or a 30, considering I could obviously improve this score with a calculator and being in good health. I'm also taking the prep classes to assure my score will be the best it could possibly be.</p>

<p>Doing this will be best for me. I will be able to get student loans, and I don't expect my parents to pay for a dime of my things. However, my parents are still not very supportive.</p>

<p>My father says I'm not intelligent enough for a university anywhere (despite the fact that my ACT score would be accepted into many of the big colleges, like Michigan State) and wants me to go to community college and then do something like become a teacher. I am an alternative kid. I don't appear to be "smart" because I don't dress in polos and wear khakis. However, as my father, he should understand that I am very smart. The fact that I'm top of my class in AP courses should convince him.</p>

<p>My mother is a bit more supportive, and understands what I want to do, but she assimilates to my dad's beliefs more often than her own.</p>

<p>I told them that I am an adult and I will make my own decision, ultimately. If that is what is going to be best for me, that is what I am going to do. I don't want to be on bad terms with them, but I have to do what is going to be what's best for me. Any parents out there with any advice?</p>

2

<p>No advice, just best wishes to you. I hope you can do what you strive for. Aim for the stars.</p>

3

<p>Do you plan to finance your entire college education with student loans? That would seem to land you in considerable debt upon graduation, if it’s even possible. What are your chances for any merit scholarships at a foreign university?</p>

<p>Assuming you do raise your ACT to 29 or 30, that isn’t considered a high enough score to garner much in terms of academic scholarships at most US universities.</p>

<p>What about airfare and other travel expenses?</p>

<p>Have you realistically thought through all the financial implications of your plan?</p>

4

<p>I can understand your desire to get out of rural Michigan and experience life somewhere new (and that’s not a slam on Michigan). Keep in mind that you don’t necessarily have to go to Ireland to do that. Even large in-state universities like Michigan State are going to offer you a new experience, if you truly live in a rural area. And of course there are plenty of other colleges in the USA as well.</p>

<p>Also, not sure where you are getting the info that “Ireland’s standards of education are much, much higher than America’s,” especially at the university level.</p>

<p>I’m not saying you should abandon your dream of going abroad. If that’s what you want and you can make it work, then go for it! Just keep in mind that if you end up needed to compromise with your parents, you can still have a new experience a little closer to home.</p>

5

<p>If I were your parents, I’d oppose this plan too. First of all, are you aware that the minimum ACT score required to APPLY to Trinity is a 29? (A few of the weaker majors will accept a 28.) So, I wouldn’t count on getting in. I’m not trying to be rude in saying that; I just think you need a reality check. </p>

<p>Second, HOW ON EARTH HAVE YOU COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT IT WILL COST THE SAME AS CENTRAL MICHIGAN!!! The tuition for a non-EU student is 15,950 Euros per year. At today’s exchange rate that’s $22, 151. </p>

<p>That doesn’t include living expenses. Assuming that your friends really will be willing to put you up for three years without charging you a penny for rent–an assumption I find extremely unlikely–the additional costs on top of tuition are estimated at 5,500 Euros, which at today’s exchange rate is $7,636. So, basically, you’re looking at about $30,000, assuming that the exchange rate remains what it is now–an assumption I wouldn’t bet the ranch on personally. (Note that this doesn’t cover air fare to or from Ireland.)</p>

<p>However, in the real world in which I live, I wouldn’t expect anyone to let me live with them for three years rent free. When someone says that I can “stay” with them, I don’t assume they mean for three years! The estimated expenses including a dorm room are 10,400 Euros or $14, 440 at today’s exchange rate. So look at roughly $36,500, assuming the exchange rate doesn’t fluctuate. </p>

<p>I have a hard time believing that as an in-state student at Central Michigan you’d pay anything close to that. Hey, compared to HYPS without financial aid, it’s a good deal and I admit that. But compared to state U? Just not true. </p>

<p>Now, let me let you in on something else. If you don’t have dual citizenship, it will be hard to stay in the EU and get a job. Ireland right now is in truly awful shape financially. Lets hope that changes. I truly do. But…it’s totally unrealistic to think that as an American with only a bachelor’s degree, you’re going to get hired a job in Ireland after graduation. </p>

<p>And, reality is that it may be hard to get a job in the US with an Irish degree. </p>

<p>The world is not limited to Central Michigan U and Trinity College. There are lots of US colleges that offer degrees in the areas of interest to you and give financial aid.</p>

6

<p>I think what you need here is a good medium between your dad’s plans and your plans.</p>

<p>I do not think it is financially/professionally prudent to go to school in Ireland, as another poster has already pointed out. It will most likely cost signficantly more than attending a school in your home state, and it will then most likely be more difficult to find a job. I admit I don’t know much about the scene for how competitive/possible it will be to get work in a museum appraising artifacts…in the US or in Ireland. That does sound like something that may require a masters or additional education, and if you are low on funds maybe transferring to a 4 yr from a CC wouldn’t be a bad idea if grad school is really necessary.</p>

<p>I do think your father, however, is being extremely unfair. I don’t agree that community college is the only option and that you aren’t good enough to get into a university (of course you are), and I don’t agre with how he’s trying to plan out your career for you (be a teacher). </p>

<p>A great compromise here sems to be you attending a university in your state, and planning for the possibility that you can’t get work in a museum. That means maybe double majoring or simply just looking outside the box as you consider your academic path and internships that you apply for/take as you go through college.</p>

<p>I totally understand what you mean about getting out of rural Michigan. I was upset about not getting out of my home state for college, too. But one thing I learned is that college is not the end-all-be-all. Make sure you spend college (wherever that is) not just looking for an adventure or an experience, but dually devoting your time to academics and getting good grades. Getting good grades in a US college will open many doors to you, including ones out of rural Michigan :).</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

7

<p>Remember that you can study abroad during college regardless of where you end up.
Do you expect to attend college without financial aid (which you wouldn’t get in Ireland) and without your parent’s support? Your best path is to scramble and do more research to find more options that meet your needs and address your parents’ concerns.</p>

8

<p>I agree with others here, you need to find a happy medium here. Ireland is not really a realistic option I think, but it sounds like you’ve really latched on to the idea of escape. That’s fine, it’s probably good to get out of Michigan for a while, but why not try an American school with a good museum studies program? Remember that museum studies is a competitive field, particularly for historical museums specializing in medevial history. There just aren’t as many museum/auction house jobs as you might think. There are many excellent museum studies programs at American colleges that would allow you to intern both at museums here and abroad. </p>

<p>I also agree with others that it’s a bad idea to take on a great deal of debt just to go to college in Ireland. To advance at all in the museum studies field, even to land many low-level jobs, you will need a graduate degree. A Master’s in something (decorative arts, museum studies, etc.) at a minimum. Eventually a Phd. All of which costs money, and is harder to do when you’re saddled with debt. </p>

<p>And there are many expenses you probably haven’t considered. Airfare will be an extremely costly one, so will student housing, and then there are all the things you will need to buy. If you are flying to school you won’t be able to take many things with you, you will need to buy lots there, everything from towels and bedding to pens and paper. And you will have to pay in Euros, so your American money won’t go as far. Even if you are able to get a job (not at all assured, Ireland’s economy is in a very bad state now), working and studying in a completely different educational system is going to be very difficult. There is the expense of getting a visa and renewing it. </p>

<p>I respect your idea of wanting to get away, and it must be extremely difficult to be told by your parents that you are “not smart”. You have to understand that they are probably scared. Most people are afraid of things they don’t understand, and it doesn’t sound like they have a lot of understanding out of your immediate area. You have to go slow with them, while pursuing your dreams. Apply for some schools that are reasonable for you, to universities in the US with good museum programs. Maybe GWU in Washington, DC? Or something in St. Louis or California? Once you’ve been accepted to some schools and have some idea of financial aid, your parents might be more willing to see what is possible, and more willing to be supportive.</p>

9

<p>You seem ready to fly the nest – however, there definitely is an entitled, demanding air to your post. </p>

<p>Is the money for your college money that you earned or money that your parents earned? (I guess there is a third option – money from grandparents . . ). Anyway, if you didn’t earn it, then you don’t get to say how it is spent. </p>

<p>That said, you can negotiate some middle ground. Right now Ireland sounds like heaven. All that greenery! History! Language! That is a very typical way for a newbie expat to feel. So, the traveler takes off, ready for the new land (the really stupid traveler makes sure to insult all the family upon departure). </p>

<p>What happens next? For Week 1 to 12, the traveler is keen to learn everything about the new land. It is exciting! This is the time that is cherished for a lifetime. Alas, somewhere between week 12 and 24, some realities start dropping in. You get sick. Really sick. Or you get your stuff stolen. Or you get assaulted ('cuz you stand out and, after 3 months you have more confidence than sense). You also miss major milestones at your home. Your old pet dies. Your best friend gets married. One of your parents is hospitalized and you aren’t there. </p>

<p>Most ex-pats go through a brutal time at the six month to nine month period. This is not just Ireland. It is anywhere. At a year out, things often have evened out and a person has a realistic notion of their new country. It is no longer heaven but it may still be very special. </p>

<p>So, negotiate to go for a year. Or a term. If your parents want you to attend an instate college for a year, then do it. Consider it your training wheels time where you show you can handle money and laundry and minor crisis. Then (hopefully with a fist full of A’s), head for the Green Isle. Your parents will be more confident about your choice and . . .you won’t come across as a whiney, demanding sort who has to have his/her way right now, this instant or else . . .</p>

10

<p>jherix, have you ever visited Ireland? Ever been abroad?</p>

11

<p>PS. I made a mistake. It is a four year course.</p>

12

<p>Why Ireland? Why not some other foreign country, some other state, some other city in your state? Is this really about the guy you met and heading over there to be with him? That’d be a big move and one that can leave you high and dry and somewhat stranded if the two of you have a falling out.</p>

<p>I don’t know where you got the idea that the Universities in Ireland have a much higher standard than those in this country. </p>

<p>You have some potentially big issues in trying to do this -

  • Being able to pay for your college and living expenses. Unless you have a pile of dough or parents willing to fund you I don’t see how you can do it.
  • If this is really about the BF - there’s a good chance there’d be a falling out with him while you’re there (just going on odds) and then - now what? You’d likely not even want to be there anymore after that point.
  • Getting accepted - check the colleges’ websites to get a realistic idea of whether you have the stats to be accepted as a foreign student. Lots of people say they’re ‘shooting for’ some GPA or some SAT score but achieving it is a different story. Nevertheless, I hope you achieve what you’re shooting for here. Keep in mind that a lot of colleges are looking at scores only from the 10/11 grades at the time they make the acceptance decision. I don’t know how the Irish colleges handle this.
  • It can be a big deal to just up and move to a foreign country - especially if you’ve never been to the country and especially if you’ve not done any international traveling. </p>

<p>I don’t agree that you’re ‘not intelligent enough to go to a Uni anywhere’ and a parent should never say that to their kid IMO. You’ll be able to find some 4 year colleges that would be a good match for whatever stats you end up with when you apply. </p>

<p>I think you should strongly consider what your options are if you don’t go to Ireland. Consider what it’d be like if you went to a state school in Michigan, to a state school in some other states, to a private college somewhere. Unless you’ve traveled extensively you’ll find that just getting out of your town into a bigger city or to a different area will be quite a difference from what you’re used to. For example, San Diego or Miami are quite different than Midland or Grand Rapids. There’s really no need to go to Ireland to experience a big change - unless this is really all about the BF (which may be what your dad is thinking in the first place).</p>

<p>For the record, if you were my kid I wouldn’t be supportive of you heading off to Ireland either unless you can convince me of why it’d be a good idea. You didn’t state anything in your post that would convince me but the BF in Ireland would be a red flag for me because I’d likely think that’s the real reason you want to go there and it has little to do with education standards or the fact that it’s ‘Ireland’.</p>

13

<p>OP: If you want to go to Ireland then go there but for right reasons. US has the best education standards when it comes to undergraduate/graduate education.</p>

<p>Maybe that is one reason that your parent are not so supportive because it doesn’t even make sense to me. Re-read your post and think logical try to analyze it. Find out the logical flaws in your statements.</p>

14

<p>I agree with ucsd dad, this is most likely about the boyfriend. I would be really leary of this plan as well.</p>

15

<p>

Graduate, probably. Undergraduate, probably not.</p>

16

<p>

</p>

<p>This is simply not true for all U.S. universities, it is highly dependent on the individual school. Some Irish universities may very well be much more demanding, with more accomplished students that Michigan state.</p>

17

<p>OP, if you want a more “city” environment and won’t be able to get into Michigan, why not Eastern Michigan University? The campus (in Ypsilanti) is so close to the Michigan campus (in Ann Arbor) - and both are so close to Detroit if you want internships and city life (professional sports and other big city stuff). It’s a nice campus.</p>

18

<p>Agree with above posters.</p>

<p>I would go to an instate school (cheaper tuition) and plan for a semester or two study abroad. In Ireland, if that is still what you desire.</p>

19

<p>"This is simply not true for all U.S. universities, it is highly dependent on the individual school. Some Irish universities may very well be much more demanding, with more accomplished students that Michigan state. "</p>

<p>There’s also the factor that most European Universities admit students who are only on the academic track in high school and thus, are almost always well-prepared topflight students. Anyone else who would be average/mediocre students in US schools tend to be placed on the “vocational/non-academic track” at the end of junior high where their changes for gaining admission to a university is almost nil. A reason why many of those placed off the academic-track who are from well-off families end up attending college here in the US IME. </p>

<p>In contrast, US undergrad academic preparation…even in elite institutions can be quite variable as shown in the phenomenon of remedial courses being offered even at elite schools. </p>

<p>A reason why many international grad students from Europe and Asia I’ve met were shocked to find many US undergrads struggling with basic writing, math, and critical analysis skills to the point they said such students would have been denied admission to any university back in their own home countries because they would not have fulfilled the minimum entrance requirements. </p>

<p>On the other hand, US grad school education is the best in the world. A reason why so many of the best foreign college graduates clamor to come here for grad school.</p>

20

<p>For your career goals, you should be looking for programs in Ancient and/or Medieval Art/Archaeology instead of just history. The U of Michigan at Ann Arbor has one of the top Ancient Civ. programs in the country, and there are Art History programs at a whole bunch of other institutions in the state. You also need to read through the website of the 46th International Congress on Medieval Studies [Congress</a> | Western Michigan University](<a href=“http://www.wmich.edu/medieval/congress/]Congress”>International Congress on Medieval Studies | Western Michigan University) Find out who is presenting papers on what topic, and where they work during the year. It will give you even more ideas.</p>