<p>May I ask what exactly you perceive “the Duke Attitude” to be K9Leader and Shecallsmedad?</p>
<p>I don’t know about this “Duke attitude” thing. Personally, when I was looking at schools of Duke’s caliber, I wasn’t expecting them to treat me like royalty…I was just hoping to get in the door. I think this is just the reality of the situation, both before and after you get accepted–it is a fact that there are thousands of kids of equal merit who would be willing to take your place if you turn Duke down so it is not desperate to attract you specifically. That said, when I visited the people I encountered were more than friendly and made every effort to show me a good time and share what they liked best (and least, which is also important) about Duke.</p>
<p>Basically, I don’t think Duke has an attitude about admissions that is unique to Duke but rather common among highly selective schools as a whole.</p>
<p>K9Leader, Duke offered to rename a building in the name of your cousin’s daughter? What did she do…cure cancer or something? That sounds almost amazingly ridiculous lol</p>
<p>yea i think that was a joke–that doesn’t happen unless you drop at least 7 figures</p>
<p>Haha yeah that’s what I figured. I’d also be really surprised if Duke paid for a student to fly down there, haha…</p>
<p>I’d also be really surprised if Duke paid for a student to fly down there</p>
<p>It happens…</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/duke-university/470339-duke-up-close.html?highlight=up+close[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/duke-university/470339-duke-up-close.html?highlight=up+close</a></p>
<p>Somehwere in the back of my brain…I recall that some finalists for scholarships are flown to Duke.</p>
<p>Some more on</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/duke-university/153301-duke-up-close.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/duke-university/153301-duke-up-close.html</a></p>
<p>"I got an invitation to this, April 2-4…it says, “Duke Up Close is a program designed for a small number of exceptional students applying for admission to Duke University. This program will allow you to experience the extraordinary academic and personal opportunities available at Duke…We will be happy to arrange, at no cost to you, travel, dining, and overnight accommodations.”</p>
<p>The “Duke Attitude” was, as I said, almost an indifference, as in there are so many qualified students clamoring to get into Duke that they don’t feel like they have to go out of their way to interest any but the top 1 or 2%. This will definitely show my age, but on the 1960s comedy show Laugh In, one of Lily Tomlin’s bits was as a telephone operator (Earnestine?) for the phone company, which was a monopoly in those days. Her catch line was “We don’t care. We don’t have to - we’re the phone company.” That was the feeling we got at Duke.</p>
<p>It was not overt, but we definitely got the feeling. My daughter saw another student from her high school at the info session and a few days later he told my daughter that he and his parents had gotten the same feeling. Aside from a quick minute or two “hello” before the info session, he and my daughter had not spoken since seeing each other at Duke, so his take was totally on his own. </p>
<p>There were a number of things that, each one on its own seemed inconsequential, but when added up, turned us off. For example, all the guidance counselors and other advisors say that indicating your interest to a school is very important, that you have to show how interested you are. So you should always fill out the interest card every time you visit or see them at a college fair or at your school. The Duke info session presenter just basically said, “We don’t keep track of whether you visit or if you call” and gave no explanation, the impression being that they don’t do it because they assume everyone is drooling to get in to Duke so they don’t have to bother. Again, “We don’t care. We don’t have to - we’re Duke.”</p>
<p>We also didn’t like being hit over the head repeatedly with all the things that are so great about Duke. Between the video presentation, the info session guy, and our tour guide we had to hear about the world-leading lemur facility at least six times (we stopped counting). We also got tired of being reminded that Duke has a basketball team. Again, between the video, the info guy, and the tour guide, we were practically beaten into submission with the revelation that they have a basketball team. There were others but those were the two that most irritated.</p>
<p>And, no this attitude is not something we have experienced at other schools, including Penn, Princeton, Yale, and Stanford. Now, we toured Stanford almost five years ago, before either of my children were ready to look at colleges, but we were visiting family in the area and did the tour. Penn and Princeton were three years ago, when my son was looking. Yale was this past summer, but my daughter was not interested – my son (a sophomore at William & Mary) and I were interested in checking it out as we were passing by on our way back from a vacation in Mystic.</p>
<p>I’ve talked with others about this and gotten mixed reviews. My cousin and her daughter were very impressed, but, of course, they have been given the royal blue carpet treatment because my cousin’s daughter is the top 1 or 2%, even at Duke. Another friend whose son went to William & Mary was similarly turned off as we were when he toured back in 2002. </p>
<p>Whatever the reason, you only get one chance to make a first impression, and Duke blew it with my daughter. Now, she is not the top 1 or 2% like her cousin, but she is pretty high up there and well qualified for Duke. Now, I know that with the fierce competition for the top schools, being well qualified does not guarantee an acceptance. But this isn’t acceptance, it’s only the attracting applicants part of the process, and even Duke should know you shouldn’t drive away the qualified students – someone’s got to make up the other 98% of your student body.</p>
<p>–K9Leader</p>
<p>Basically arrogance with a touch of narcissism, dictator.</p>
<p>Duke doesn’t keep track of demonstrated interest is because they don’t want people who don’t get a chance to come visit to be at a disadvantage.</p>
<p>C’mon now! These people exist at Duke, but it is not exclusive to Duke!
I visited just about every Ivy League, there were people like that at all of these places.
Anywhere you have rich kids, you will have people with the “Duke Attitude”.
I personally can’t stand it and complain about it a lot but I know that I would have done so if I picked Dartmouth or Georgetown or Rice or Chicago or (my favorite option at the time).. just sneak into Brown. ;)</p>
<p>I didn’t perceive that attitude at all when visiting Duke during BDD. In fact my regional admissions officer approached me (she had remembered me from an info session) and was really eager to talk to me about my goals at Duke and about one of my duke essays. I am definitely not in the top percentage of people that applied, but to me it seemed like faculty members were more than obliging when it came to answering questions and discussing just about anything. </p>
<p>As far as this statement goes : "The Duke info session presenter just basically said, “We don’t keep track of whether you visit or if you call” and gave no explanation, the impression being that they don’t do it because they assume everyone is drooling to get in to Duke so they don’t have to bother. Again, “We don’t care. We don’t have to - we’re Duke.” "</p>
<p>The reason Duke doesn’t keep track of visits is because its an unfair advantage to those who have the means to visit Duke. Not everyone has the resources to visit every school they’re interested in, and so Duke doesn’t think that demonstrated interest should be a factor. </p>
<p>I don’t intend to sound offensive… but I think its possible that many people expect the “Duke attitude” and so every little impression is taken in that context, even if it wasn’t intended that way.</p>
<p>
I guess I am just not sure what you expected from a recruiting visit, then… I would imagine that the reason we are putting all of our best feet forward in a non-subtle way is we want to make sure people making the very important decision about where to attend college feel that we are letting them know, directly, what it is that sets us apart. And we have very little time to do it for the people who’ve given up some of their time to come visit.</p>
<p>I am sorry your family had such a negative experience. I can assure you that Dean Guttentag, his entire team, and the rest of us absolutely want every one of the students that are accepted to be a part of the family (and, in fact, a great many more that, for whatever reason, are not accepted but are still terrific people).</p>
<p>“We also didn’t like being hit over the head repeatedly with all the things that are so great about Duke.”</p>
<p>I didn’t think duke did that at all… President Brodhead made an amazing speech about how a person accepted to Duke would do well anywhere… no one said that duke is better than any other school…</p>
<p>It is unfortunate that you left with this perception of Duke. I have quickly learned that there is a preconception about the school and as one poster said before, sometimes people look for affirmation of their dislike for Duke.</p>
<p>Our family had a very different experience. It all began when the admissions officer for our region recognized our sons by their last names and made a point of introducing herself and engaging them in a conversation both before and after the introductory session. It only got better as the day continued. But, we had been sold on Duke long before so our preconceptions were obviously quite different.</p>
<p>I personally recall sitting through a similar program at Princeton and having to listen to the admissions officer tell us how much better Princeton is than Yale and Harvard. </p>
<p>With regard to keeping a record of the number of times someone visits or contacts the school, our sons were told that Duke does not do this because the school recognizes the difficulty for many students to visit due to time, distance and cost. This is in striking contrast to some schools that informed my sons that level of interest is a factor and if they really wanted to attend, they would find a way to get there. Crossed that school off the list immediately.</p>
<p>As far as extolling all of the attributes of Duke and a Duke education, I must agree with Dr. G. I believe that is one of the objectives of a recruiting session. But again, if that is going to turn you against a school, there really isn’t much Duke can do. It isn’t very helpful to say, at least in my opinion, “just read the catalogue”. I enjoyed the exuberance with which everyone spoke about the school and found that to be a constant at most schools we visited (other than Princeton).</p>
<p>But again, it is unfortunate that you and your family had this experience. I am certain your child will be happy wherever she goes.</p>
<p>EVERYBODY (myself included) look for little things when making a college visit when really they demonstrate little to nothing about the university. So, the Johns Hopkins informational session speaker was more exciting than Columbia’s? Does that mean Johns Hopkins is better? No. Does it make me like Johns Hopkins more? Yes. Is this really a good reason to like a school more? Not really. </p>
<p>First impressions matter greatly in the pyschology of choosing a college. In reality, it’s impossible to get a good grasp of a university in a day. People’s perceptions are shaped by chance - was the student who gave the tour nice and helpful? Was the weather nice the day you visited? Do you know a student who goes to the school? Did you stay with that friend who is a student and get to experience more (always a HUGE plus)?</p>
<p>I mean, I’m not saying there aren’t things that can be gained from a day’s visit (sorry for the double negative). I’m just saying that I think people sometimes put too much emphasis on things left to chance - especially when there’s nothing else to go off of, what else are you supposed to base your decision on? It’s perfectly reasonable and human nature, but when I look back on it…kinda stupid. The Hopkins guide was a snob to me…so what? That is not a large enough sample size to really show anything. Does this mean all Hopkins students are snobs? Probably not. I guess that is why schools put such an emphasis on the admissions staff/student tour guides. First impressions are key! (as they are in other facets of life).</p>
<p>My main point is that there’s only so much you can gain from a single day visit and much of it is left up to chance and not really representative of the university. It’s certainly possible you did run into snobby people with attitudes and you thereby extended this attitude to all Duke students. I’m sure you’ll daughter will be happy wherever she ends up, though. Good luck!</p>
<p>Sorry for the rant. The psychology of people choosing colleges is quite interesting!</p>
<p>going back to the original topic of this thread…</p>
<p>i too am questioning whether or not duke is worth the cost. i’m currently a student and paying full price because my family is upper middle class…but not rich enough to pay ~$200k out-of-pocket. therefore, i applied for a transfer to UVA back in march and recently found out that i am accepted and the cost would be minimal–miniscule in comparison to duke’s hefty cost anyway. unfortunately, i am in love with duke and really don’t want to transfer…to those with any experience with this, is it worth the debt to go to a top tier university especially when you’re pre-med and love the school? or is it better to just go to the public university where the education is still good but you don’t relaly like the school (as in my case)?</p>
<p>any help would be appreciated.</p>
<p>After you’ve been a UM for a month, you won’t even really remember that you wanted to go to Duke. The concept is simple: “If you can’t be with the one you love, then love the one you’re with.”</p>
<p>It is unfortunate that several people now have perceptions of the Duke admissions committee as being elitist. That was never my perception during the admissions process. My admissions counselor covered several states and recruitment for Pratt and still was extremely helpful during the admissions process. She always promptly returned my many emails during the admissions process. She remembered me at a local information session after only a 30 second conversation while visiting Duke. I was, on the whole, very impressed with the Duke admissions experience. Their commitment to selecting individuals who are not only intelligent, but also service-minded and involved in their communities, sets Duke apart from its peer schools. </p>
<p>Duke, like any university, only has a given amount of resources it can dedicate to merit scholarships. It woos its top applicants with this money, as UMich woos its top applicants with their money. These top applicants are admittedly more heavily courted during the admissions process: They recieve free transportation to campus (Duke Up-close) and certainly recieve more attention. What, about this, doesn’t make sense? If you weren’t a top applicant at UMichigan, you would not have recieved the aid package you are discussing, and could then argue that UMichigan admissions were arrogant for not courting all applicants. </p>
<p>It’s very difficult to be a top applicant at Duke, therefore, I’d like to see them dedicate more resources toward attracting all admitted students. This, however, would have to be a funding/trustees initiative, and does not come from the admissions office. Duke’s current financial aid seems to be a fair assessment of a family’s ability to pay. Duke’s endowment has just increased signifcantly, and I would expect them to apportion even more funds to increase financial aid coverage, as they did this year. </p>
<p>I agree with one of the other posters that I think many people have an elitist perception of Duke, and thus, when they experience anything that could be contorted as being elitist, they like to label Duke with this label. I find it hard to believe that the Duke information session was anything different from that at many of the Ivy league schools. Actually, I am certain that it is not more elitist than that of Dartmouth, whose information session was arguably elitist by spending a disproportionate amount of time describing their “D-Plan” a schedule unique to Dartmouth. In my opinion, you could really say this about any university’s adcom…Any school’s adcom will sing the praises of its university: that, after all, is its purpose. What I would suggest is for you to evaluate the substance of a university, instead of a layer of perception based on mere presentation: What kind of academic experience would Duke provide? How would Duke prepare me for post-graduate opportunities in comparison to other universities? Can I see myself walking across the greens for four years? Deciding based on a “vibe” supported largely by a friend’s perception, an adcom’s understandable pride in its school and outdated anecdotal evidence seems to me to be not the best way to decide on a college. </p>
<p>As for the OP…I am truly sorry you’re in this situation. I would certainly understand if you picked UMich, particularly if you think that it is a good fit. If you work hard and find small classes, you will have an equal academic experience and certainly will have no problem with post-grad job/grad schools. </p>
<p>FYI: I didn’t get a good aid package at all from Duke. My family, however, just had unfortunate circumstances that increased our financial standing…therefore, our financial assessment was certainly understandable. College costs money, but I am confident that if I make the best out of my Duke education, I will not regret my decision to attend Duke. For those of you who do not have such a choice, I am truly sorry that money will influence your college choice, but if you work hard you will love your college experience and it won’t matter where you graduated from.</p>