<p>Starting with the class entering in Sept. 2010, Bryn Mawr College applicants can choose among several test options:</p>
<p>**-The SAT Reasoning Test and a combination of two different SAT Subject Tests and/or two AP tests or</p>
<p>-The ACT or</p>
<p>-A combination of three SAT Subject Tests and/or AP tests in the following areas:</p>
<pre><code>* English, history or languages and
Math or science and
One subject of the students choice but in a subject different from the other two (only one non-English language may be submitted) **
</code></pre>
<p>According to Bryn Mawr officials:</p>
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<p>I especially like the final “mix-and-match” option. However, I do wish that Bryn Mawr officials also included an edict stating that applicants would NOT be ALLOWED to submit EXTRA test results. I don’t want students who are submitting, say, three AP exam results to be compared to those who also submit those three AP’s plus uber-high SAT’s and ACT’s. I’m not as anti-testing as many of my colleagues are, but I am against what the process has become, especially the arms-race mentality that spurs top students to take–and submit–an unreasonable (IMO) number of exams.</p>
<p>I’m glad to be seeing more colleges offering more options for test taking. NYU is also having a new and similar testing policy. The traditional SAT/ACT+ Subjet tests in my opinion are obsolete simply because some people don’t have access to the various tests for whatever reason. In my school district our AP exam scores are paid for, so a student who is in a harsh financial situation would benefit from this new policy because they could submit their AP exam scores, and SAT or ACT( whatever they manage to take).</p>
<p>NYU’s policy is a nice big step to more test taking flexibility as well. Their new policy is similar, but differs because a person can submit 3 AP scores if they are in math, science, literatue, and a langauge that isn’t there own.</p>
<p>I also agree with you Ms. Rubenstone. I hope that when schools implement this new policy, they limit it strictly to 3 or whatever set number of scores they expect to see from the various tests. Hopefully it would allow put to alleviate some of that stess, and begin start taking a reasonable amount of tests. Personally, it seems as though things are becoming even more standarized test based since my parents were in school. They often tell me about how they only had to take the SAT and that was it. :P</p>
<p>I have only one problem with this. Doesn’t a 2350 correspond to a higher skill level than a 5 on 3 AP Tests? It seems like they should create some sort of conversion scale, where you put in your AP scores and you get a single number that corresponds to an SAT score. That way applicants understand what’s going on throughout the entire process.</p>
<p>Am I wrong to think they don’t want to do that? I thought the whole idea was to look at different things, not just high scores on one type of test and see strengths in other areas. I know a girl who scored well on SATll’s but not the SAT. She would love to submit just those.
Is there a cut-off for the AP’s, just 3 and over or 4 and over?</p>
<p>If you’re talking about a cut-off for getting credit for an AP score, this will vary from college to college and even from department to department within some institutions. Typically, however, the more selective colleges will give credit for 4’s and 5’s (or, in some situations, only 5’s) while some colleges and universities will give credit for 3 and above. </p>
<p>But, if your question is “What AP scores are worth submitting to Bryn Mawr in lieu of SAT or ACT results,” my advice would be to select only 4’s or 5’s. If your other standardized test results are really bad, then you may have to go with a 3, but–unless there are some extenuating circumstance–you won’t get much mileage out of a 3 at places like Bryn Mawr.</p>
<p>Thanks, that is what I thought, but I wasn’t sure. I heard some parents talking how not that many years ago, a 3 got credit in a lot more colleges, but once students starting taking more and more AP’s, that slowly changed.
My daughter’s aren’t sure they want a women’s college for different reasons, but probably would do one of the alternatives since their straight SAT scores will probably be not as strong as their other tests.</p>
<p>I would have loved this policy last year. I did pretty well on all my exams, but admittedly, I did better on the ACT than the SAT and I got all 5s on every AP exam I took. </p>
<p>As great as this policy is for allowing students to send truly their ‘best’ score, I wonder whether it’ll further push up competition. The amount of “extras” a student is expected to have is already quite startling. I am worried that students would feel pressured to become president of that tenth club because “everyone” has perfect scores now.</p>
<p>I suspect it’s more of an attempt to raise the average test scores of the student body and/or attract more applicants in order to appear more selective…</p>
<p>I’ve recieved mail recently from NYU and Furman touting similar policies that go into affect for the class of 2010. Post #8 thats an interesting take on it, and while its probably not the main motivation, it is a direct result of these policies, and people should remember that when they look at schools stats that have policies like this. </p>
<p>Here’s NYU’s:</p>
<p>SAT I and 2 subject tests
ACT (w Writing)
SAT Reasoning test and 2 AP Scores
3 SAT Subject Tests in non-language tests (one in lit or the humanities, one in math or science, one of the student’s choice)
3 AP Exam Scores (same requirements of Subject Tests)</p>
<p>OFFICIAL STANDARDIZED TESTING: The Admissions Committee believes that standardized testing has an important place in selective college admissions decision-making, but we believe that students should have choices. Furman applicants can meet our standardized test requirement by submitting scores choosing from one of the following options :</p>
<p>SAT I,
ACT (American College Testing) assessment test and optional writing test,
two SAT II subject tests - one in English, one in Math,
two AP (Advanced Placement) exams, one from English (Language and Composition or Literature and Composition) and one from Math (Calculus AB or Calculus BC),
two IB (International Baccalaureate) exams, one in English Language (A1) and one in Mathematics, or
the TOEFL exam (Test of English as a Foreign Language)
Applicants should request all test scores from the appropriate testing agency prior to the application deadlines. Candidates for admission who submit SAT and/or ACT scores must also submit a standardized writing score.</p>
<p>The Admissions Committee will select the scores that offer the student the greatest advantage in the admissions review process (meaning the highest score) if a student were to submit multiple test results.</p>
<p>Furman’s school codes are 5222 for the SAT & TOEFL and 3858 for the ACT.</p>
<p>APs are a superior test to SAT-II. Even if your school doesn’t offer them, they’re eminently accessible for self-studying (if you’re thinking of going to an elite college, at least.) Any move towards using them for admissions purposes is a positive.</p>
<p>APs are significantly more expensive than SAT-IIs (fee waivers are equally easy/difficult to get). Their usual tie to HS courses also makes then LESS accessible to low-income students, many of whom would never think of self-studying for an AP.</p>
<p>Not a fan. If you get about 70% right on most APs, then you get a five. This system does not provide a way for the college to distinguish the 70th percentile from the 95th percentile. This is going to punish those whose test scores are the brightest aspect of their application.</p>
<p>Correct me if I’m wrong but don’t most students at top schools score around 650s-750s on SAT I and SATII sections?? Okay we can’t be too sure about SAT IIs since its not like you can punch in that info at p r i n c e t o n r e v i e w.com and get it for every single uni…we only have that kind of info available for sat I, but im sure it will be around the same numbers…
I’m guessing the admissions committe would see 3 5’s the same way they would see 3 SATII/SATI sectionss in the high 600 to 700 ranges. In the rare occasion that someone who chooses to submit the SAT has 3 750+s (not many applicants can almost-ace all 3 SAT IIs or SATI sections) they may have a small advantage over the applicant with 3 5’s…if it comes down to which one of those two candates they should accept, other factors like essays, ecs, gpa etc. would play the final decision in who gets the seat.
To make things clearer:
650-750 SAT= 5 on AP test
750+ SAT > 5 on AP
Thats just how it makes sense to me.
Okay so everyone with perfect scores out there, I hear you, scores are the strongest part of my own application, but I’m sure we’ll still have somewhat of an advantage over ppl with just as strong applications but not as good scores anyway. :-)</p>
<p>True for the SAT I but I think that SAT II scores are higher than that. Many SAT II tests are scored so that you can still get a score of 800 with only 55/65 correct answers. (In contrast, one incorrect answer on the SAT I will ruin a perfect score!) The median SAT II scores (of all test takers) are typically in the 600s and 700s, as opposed to 500 for the SAT I. A 650-750 on the SAT IIs makes you an average test taker, not an outstanding one.</p>
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<p>A high SAT I score shows that you are smart. (Wasn’t the SAT initially an IQ test in disguise?) High SAT II scores show that you have mastered high school-level material, but high AP scores show that you can master college-level material. For example, I only need pre-calc to get a score of 800 on the SAT II in math but I need calc for the AP exam. In sciences and languages AP exams cover significantly more material than the corresponging SAT II exams. That’s why I would always choose high AP scores over high SAT II scores.</p>
<p>^ But for the same reason, AP scores disproportionately favor the wealthy/middle-class in strong schools and the encouragement to take AP courses.</p>
What’s wrong with encouraging students to take AP courses? Elsewhere in the world AP-equivalent courses are the standard high school curriculum. Why should US students stay behind the rest of the world on purpose?</p>
<p>Every standardized test I am aware of disproportionally favors wealthy students in strong schools if that means that these students do better as a group. There are a variety of reasons for why that is the case. Most of these reasons also mean that this group of students is better prepared for college than students with lower test scores. Why should their college applications not reflect that? </p>
<p>Just for the record, neither of my parents went to college and my family makes less than $25,000 a year. I would not consider myself part of an educated or wealthy family. Statistically I am less likely to take AP classes, but I had the same opportunities to take them as everyone else in my school district.</p>
<p>^ Then you are a statistical anomaly for living in a school district with those opportunities. Would you still consider yourself to have the “same opportunities” if you attended a school that offered no or very few AP courses and thus had to depend entirely on self-study? The technical opportunity is equal, but the de facto opportunity certainly is not.</p>
<p>Of course, I speak from a highly-educated middle-class position, with little authority except anecdotal observations.</p>
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I did pretty well on all my exams, but admittedly, I did better on the ACT than the SAT and I got all 5s on every AP exam I took. </p>