Notre Dame football: Big 10 or Bust?

Sorry, but a deal is a deal. You get Georgetown, we get Cornell.

(If you prefer, we can substitute Colgate, Holy Cross, William & Mary or a similar school.)

Columbia’s president came from U-M 19 years ago. He didn’t particularly raise CU’s athletic prowess even though some facilities upgrades occurred.

All the Ivy League has woeful facilities compared with Maryland and Rutgers, the latest two additions. And while some like to say the Ivy League is just an athletic conference. Its affiliation is a lot more than that.

Georgetown plays two games vs. Ivy teams this fall and the Patriot League is a strong athletic conference and Division I for basketball, although GTown plays in the Big East for that.

It seems like Chicago ought to play Wash U, Carnegie Mellon, JHU, NEU and other urban highly ranked academic city schools in conference.

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Cornell and Georgetown are “pie in the sky” type ideas. Georgetown doesn’t even have a football team and Cornell will not leave the Ivy League.

Chicago makes more sense, but the intellectuals that run the UofC wouldn’t let football “rule the roost” there in the end. They’re all about stealing, er adding, professors from Harvard and winning (and adding) Nobel Prizes.

Almost 100 students on the GTown football team:
https://guhoyas.com/sports/football/roster

Meanwhile, the UofC football players seem to come from a bit more hoity toity high schools. Four of the 11 Texans attended St John’s School.
https://athletics.uchicago.edu/sports/fball/2021-22/roster

Now that the Big 12 is weakened, it seems like other conferences can wait them out and ESPN forces them to take 2-4 other schools among BYU, Houston, Cinci, UCF, etc. Big 10 can take KU anytime it wants. Pac 12 only wants Big 12 schools if it’s poached and on life support.

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I learned something new today. I’ve never even seen a box score or a mention of a GT football game.

Not sure that you followed the conversation. The Big Ten would never consider Georgetown. We were doing a mock replacement. Georgetown to the Ivy League if Cornell went to the Big Ten.

Would the Big Ten extend an invitation to Cornell University ? Most likely not, but Cornell does have the research chops that Big Ten presidents like. Cornell would probably be excited about a chance to earn more money & to be associated with the research schools in the Big Ten.

This banter was encouraged by a post seeking which school should the Ivy League consider if Cornell left. The agreed upon answer was Georgetown. But Georgetown doesn’t really need the Ivy League. So maybe Colgate, Holy Cross, William & Mary–all schools which in the past were discussed as possible additions to the Ivy League–would suffice if Georgetown turned down the Ivy League.

In all seriousness, the Big Ten has its preferred list of target schools (excluding all SEC member schools):

  1. Notre Dame
  2. USC
  3. UNC (The Big Ten loves UNC !)
  4. Georgia Tech (Big Ten wants the Atlanta TV market & recruiting grounds)
  5. PAC 12 group of USC, UCLA, Stanford, UC-Berkeley, Oregon, & Univ. of Washington
  6. ACC group of Georgia Tech, UNC, Pitt, Virginia, & Duke & hopefully Notre Dame would also join.
  7. Pac 12’s Colorado at Boulder is of interest due to the Denver TV market, but not a strong target. More attractive as part of a Pac 12 package deal.
  8. The Chicago Bears (in order to have a team that can compete with Alabama)

Most likely the Big Ten will consider either a Pac 12 group of schools and/or an ACC group of schools.

The Pac 12 is more likely because of an expiring TV contract in 2024.

The ACC will come into serious consideration if Clemson & FSU join the SEC or possibly Clemson, FSU, & UMiami join the SEC.

Remote possibility of SEC schools would be:

Texas A&M (the Big Ten would take Texas A&M in a heartbeat ! Brings the Texas TV markets & recruiting grounds without the prima donna demands that accompany UT-Austin)
Univ. of Texas at Austin

Vanderbilt is far less attractive to the Big Ten, but–like Cornell–has aspects that are attractive to the academic side of the Big Ten.

Cornell would be attractive for research compatibility–no small issue–and for ancillary sports such as wrestling & ice hockey. Cornell’s AG School would be thrilled to find its long lost family !

P.S. There are serious studies & modeling occurring at this time at the request of the Big Ten.

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If the B1G could pull UNC and GaTech, that would seem to force a move by the SEC to take Clemson and FSU.

Then, the Pac 12 still has a lockdown on the West Coast but would make far less per team.

In that case, would the remnant ACC merge with the leftover Big 12 and top AAC (per ESPN’s guidance)?

What’s the fate of Wake Forest? I don’t see how the Deacs are a fit in any Super Conference.

The same might be said about Duke given Coach K’s retirement

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The best chance for ACC teams may be for the ACC to collapse so no team has to pay the exorbitant exit fees.

FSU, Clemson,& Miami would like to join the SEC.

UNC, Virginia, Georgia Tech, Duke, Pitt, & Notre Dame would be welcome to join the Big Ten as all except Notre Dame are AAU member schools.

That leaves Wake Forest (WFU), Louisville, Boston College, NC State & Virginia Tech in the ACC. If exit fees are paid by the other 9 teams, then it would be a financial windfall for the remaining teams.

WFU, BC, Louisville, Virginia Tech, & NC State could add West Virginia, Univ. of Central Florida, Cincinnati, & Univ. of South Florida & East Carolina & Coastal Carolina & the US Naval Academy to form a 12 school conference.

Otherwise, the 5 remaining ACC teams could merge with the 11 American Athletic Conference teams to form a 16 team league. Additionally, West Virginia & Coastal Carolina could be added to form an 18 team league.

American Athletic Conference members:

Univ. of Central Florida
Univ. of South Florida
Cincinnati
SMU
Univ. of Houston
East Carolina
U Conn
US Naval Academy
Tulane
Temple
Memphis
Univ. of Tulsa

West Virginia might be available.
Coastal Carolina as well.

Any conference with recruiting ground in Texas & Florida will attract highly skilled athletes & a healthy TV rights contract. (SMU, U Houston, U. Central Florida, & U. South Florida.)

Tulsa doesn’t really add a lot. Tulane has academics but is a bit worse athletically than Tulsa. At least I believe the NOLA/Mobile market is larger but doesn’t Tulane bring much of it?

The point is that any remaining ACC teams will have a lot of options.

Currently, the ACC has the lowest payout among the Power 5 conferences.

P.S. ACC issues:

What if Notre Dame becomes a full member school for football ?

Can a majority of ACC vote to veto exit fees ?

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I disagree with many of this article’s claims. For example, the writer suggests that if the Big Ten adds just 2 teams, that those teams will be Utah Utes & the Virginia Cavaliers. Highly unlikely in my view.

Next the author adds USC, UCLA, Oregon, & Washington to the Big Ten. This is very likely if Stanford & UCal-Berkeley are also included.

The author then lists the Univ. of Miami & Georgia Tech as the next two teams to be added to the Big Ten. Georgia Tech is possible, but Miami is not likely.

Finally the author indicates that TCU (Texas Christian University) might be an addition to the Big Ten. This is a stretch at best, although the Big Ten would love to get a foothold in the state of Texas.

NOTE: The link takes readers to an article contained on page 13 of 13 pages. If one clicks back through the first 12 pages there is some interesting reading on various teams throughout the country including, for example, Boston College, WFU, Texas Tech, Pitt, Miami, Ga Tech, USC, UCLA, Washington, Oregon, Stanford, TCU, Utah, Virginia, Texas A&M, Florida, Notre Dame, UNC, Maryland, Rutgers, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Vanderbilt, Va Tech, Syracuse, ASU, Louisville, Okla State, Wash State, & Texas Tech.

The first of the 13 pages lists the AAU member schools in the SEC, ACC, & Pac 12. The Big Ten strongly prefers AAU member schools although an exception would be made for Notre Dame.

They lost me at Stanford Cardinals and TCU Horn Frogs.

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Well, it’s published, so it must be true. :rofl::rofl:

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I shared the piece to show how much & what type speculation is taking place. Some thoughts I agree with, some thoughts I do not.

A significant part of any conference realignment seems to be in the hands of Fox & ESPN. These two networks control most of the college football TV rights because they pay the most money for the TV rights.

Even the conferences are not sure of which teams to pursue until the modeling is done & the networks indicate how much they are willing to pay for TV & media rights under various circumstances.

@tristatecoog: I agree that there are several typos in the article. Should be Stanford Cardinal (no “s”) and it is the TCU Horned Frogs.

@skieurope: I doubt that anyone, including the author, intended this speculation to be taken as fact. It is just conjecture.

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Two short articles that may be of interest to readers.

si.com/college/westvirginia/wvu-football/examining-future-options-for-the-big-12-wvu

I listened to Paul Finebaum this morning on ESPN with Stephen A. and Max Kellerman on First Take.

He basically feels like I do. Everyone is having fantasies of realignment, but the B1G doesn’t have to do a thing right now. And every team that’s been floated out there is worth a bag of chips, but for ND. And ND doesn’t have to do anything either.

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I suspect that the Big Ten will take Paul Finebaum’s advice with a grain of salt.

Of course, the SEC’s mouthpiece wants the Big Ten to sit back & fade into the background–especially at this crucial time when both the Big Ten’s & the Pac 12’s TV rights contracts are coming up for renewal.

Paul Finebaum advising the Big Ten is akin to GM offering free advice to Ford that electric vehicles are just a passing fad.

“Fantasies of realignment” in light of significant upcoming change to the college football playoff system, the death of the NCAA, introduction of NIL, potential demise of the Big 12 conference, rapid growth of streaming college football games, and the expected dominance of SEC recruiting in Texas now that it has both UT-Austin & Texas A&M which is threatening to destroy many Texas university college football programs is a bit like Borders bookstores trusting the handling of their newly created website to Amazon. (In case you forgot, that didn’t work out too well for Borders bookstores.)

The statement that the only team worthy of consideration by the Big Ten is Notre Dame is incorrect. USC, Oregon, Washington, UCLA, Stanford, & the other Pac 12 AAU teams are certainly worthy of the Big Ten’s expansion plans as are the ACC’s AAU member teams.

The SEC mouthpiece wants both the Big Ten & Notre Dame to do nothing while the SEC negotiates with ACC member schools Clemson, FSU, & Miami which will destroy the ACC making Notre Dame vulnerable to SEC advances. Of course, the SEC wants the Big Ten & Notre Dame to do nothing while it continues with its expansion agenda targeting Notre Dame, Clemson, FSU, Miami, and Ohio State & Michigan.

The Big Ten, the Pac 12, the ACC, and the remainder of the Big 12 and Fox sports need to act swiftly regarding realignment & expansion.

With the upcoming demise of the NCAA, the SEC & ESPN see a giant opening for domination of the multi-billion dollar college football industry if only the Big Ten and Notre Dame would be so kind as to sit back and relax and ignore the ongoing earthquake in the world of college football.

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Boy, you sure like your analogies. :grinning:

Realignment will happen, eventually, that’s not the fantasy. The fantasies are the teams being floated about.

Clemson and ND are currently successful in terms of records and both have paths to the CFP. I don’t see them moving anywhere in the short term. And scheduling alliances are easier to accomplish than moving from league to league.

I just think you’re being a little Machiavellian with the “threatening to destroy” language.

As I wrote above, the world of college football has had several dramatic changes over the past year.

Changes include Texas’ & Oklahoma’s move to the SEC thereby destroying the Big 12 conference.

Change also includes the US Supreme Court ruling allowing for college football players to be compensated for use of their name, image, &/or likeness (NIL) while the same ruling essentially rendered the NCAA impotent with respect to governing college football. (This will have a substantial impact on recruiting as recruits want to play where they will get the most exposure.)

Upcoming change that needs to be addressed now are the expiring TV rights contracts for the Big Ten & the Pac 12 conferences.

Change includes the near total domination of recruiting in Texas by the SEC which will also drastically harm the remaining D-I Texas college football programs.

My analogies were made to help readers understand some of the significance of the impact of these and other changes which have occurred recently in college football.