Notre Dame football: Big 10 or Bust?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Notre Dame
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Any Conference Commissioner who can successfully negotiate a savings of $50 million or so on Notre Dame’s exit fees is well worth a $4 million a year compensation package.

We live in an era of mergers and acquisitions in both the corporate world and in the world of big time college athletics.

When I was young, the mergers & acquisitions action was mainly in consolidating school districts in order to save money by operating more efficiently. Additionally, the NFL merged the American Football League with the National Football League. Today,mergers & acquisitions occur every month in the business world.

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It will be interesting to see whether or not the University of Texas football program can survive in the SEC.

Notre Dame & UT-Austin (Texas) are the two prima donnas of college football. How will Texas handle consecutive losing seasons & scant likelihood of making the CFP (college football playoffs) ?

How long will Texas tolerate not being in charge with respect to conference (SEC) matters ?

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If money cures all, then it cures all. So Texas should be happy with increasing payday.

In addition, if playoff expands to 12 teams, Texas stands a good chance making the playoff as part of the SEC.

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Texas has a very wealthy athletic department with respect to revenue generation.

The issue is whether or not Texas can deal with not being in control of the SEC.

Regarding playoff expansion to 12 teams, it depends upon the basis on which the playoff spots are awarded. Texas may have had a better chance to make the CFP playoffs in an expanded 12 team version if it had remained in the Big 12. At this time, we just do not know the basisfor selection of teams to the proposed expanded playoffs.

Texas may be the exception to “money cures all”. If Texas wants more money, all it has to do is to drill a hole in the ground.

166

Coach Bobby Bowden’s death and a little story that would never happen in 2021: When I was in grad school at Northwestern, I was invited to a couple of Notre Dame football games by a classmate who was an ND grad. We were on a double date and having a pre-game dinner prior to the Tennessee game in South Bend, when my friend says, “Let’s call Coach Bobby Bowden!” No lie. Bear in mind, this was amidst the unbelievable streak when Florida State was ranked no lower than #5 in the AP Final poll 14 years in a row! Sounds like an odd idea to call a living legend, but I had a beer already, so why not?

We go to the restaurant’s payphone (mobile phones weren’t ubiquitous) and he asks the telephone operator for the phone number of a ‘Robert Bowden’ in Tallahassee, Florida. Sure, enough Bowden didn’t pay the 2 bucks for an unlisted number and we are golden. My friend dials the number and Coach Bowden’s daughter picks up. We hear her yell, "Dad, Bob Xyz’ is on the phone, and then mere seconds later hands the phone over to Coach Bowden. It was game day, but FSU already crushed South Carolina in an earlier game. My friend Bob apologizes, introduces us, tells him we are ND fans, and says I’m listening in. Then, my friend launches into asking what Coach Bowden thought of a matchup between one-loss #5 ND and undefeated, #1 FSU in a Bowl Game if both won out.

Coach Bowden was unbelievably kind and said if both win to that point it could be #1 vs #2 for all the marbles. After another minute of football talk, it was time to hang-up. Coach Bowden wished us good luck tonight against Tennessee and hoped to see us in a Bowl Game. As fate would have it, both teams lost two more games and it never happened. Although, I will never like FSU, I certainly had respect for Coach Bobby Bowden from that phone call onwards. RIP Coach.

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Great story, although I question the part about having had just one beer prior to making the call.

When I was in law school, several times I spoke with the head coach of a very prominent and successful D-I football program while he was overseeing practice. Very nice man. No beer was involved.

P.S. I doubt that any such conversations would have occurred with Woody or Bo in the Big Ten. Southern hospitality may account for the difference.

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AAU member schools that would enhance or maintain the academic reputation of the Big Ten regarding federally funded research expenditures:

University of Washington
Duke
Stanford
Univ. of North Carolina (UNC)
UCLA
Cornell
Univ. of Pittsburgh
Texas A&M
Georgia Tech
Univ. of Florida
UCal-Berkeley
USC
Vanderbilt

Univ. of Texas at Austin
Univ. of Arizona
Univ. of Colorado-Boulder
Univ. of Oregon
Univ. of Utah
Univ. of Virginia
Univ. of Kansas

Assuming that the 4 SEC member schools (Texas A&M, Texas, Florida, & Vanderbilt) are not in play, then 16 schools remain.

The nine (9) Pac 12 schools which are AAU members are:

Univ. of Washington
Stanford
UCLA
UCal-Berkeley
USC
Arizona
Colorado
Oregon
Utah

ACC schools which are AAU members:

Duke
UNC
Pittsburgh
Georgia Tech
Virginia

Notre Dame is not an AAU member, but the Big Ten would waive this “requirement” for Notre Dame.

If Clemson, FSU, & U. Miami move to the SEC, then Pitt, UNC,Georgia Tech,Duke, & Virginia might be free to merge with the Big Ten for a total of 19 Big Ten schools. Notre Dame would be the preferred 20th member, but Kansas or Cornell could also be considered if Notre Dame does not want to move to the Big Ten.

Big Ten university presidents look at AAU member schools in terms of research funds. From this perspective, the University of Washington is easily the most coveted as it receives massive amounts of federal research funds. But the ACC’s Duke, UNC, Pittsburgh, & Georgia Tech all receive more federal research dollars than does current Big Ten member Northwestern University which ranks in the top 30 out of over 900 schools for federal research dollars. Northwestern University ranks at #6 among the 14 Big Ten schools for federal research dollars.

Pac 12 schools which receive more federal research money than Northwestern are:

Washington
Stanford
UCLA
UCal-Berkeley
USC

Although the Univ.of Colorado at Boulder receives far less in federal research dollars than Northwestern,Colorado is the closest geographically to Big Ten schools and brings the Denver TV & media market. So a pick-up of 6 universities from the Pac 12 is easy to justify both from a value standpoint (TV markets of Seattle, San Francisco, Los Angeles, & Denver) as well as from an academic research perspective. The University of Oregon–which would be the 7th Pac 12 school to join the Big Ten–brings the Portland TV market as well as outstanding revenue athletic teams.

If seven (7) Pac 12 schools join the Big Ten,then 3 seven team divisions could make up the Big Ten football conference.

There are several reasonable expansion plans available to the Big Ten which would include schools from the Pac 12 as well as schools from the ACC. The question remains as to how many schools the Big Ten wants to add to its current total of 14 schools. It could be just 2 to make a conference of 16 universities or it could be 6 or more to build a super conference of 20 to 32 schools.

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Cornell University might be an interesting target for Big Ten expansion.

Cornell recruits its college presidents from Big Ten schools.

Cornell plays ice hockey & has a very respectable wrestling team = two popular Big Ten sports.

Cornell football is not up to Big Ten standards, but with the right incentive such as Big Ten money, that could change. (Plus, maybe the Big Ten could get creative & allow Cornell to play 12 players without penalty for the first few years. :slight_smile: )

Cornell is an AAU member with large research expenditures.

Cornell has a school of agriculture which distinguishes it from its Ivy League counterparts.

Cornell gets very little respect within the Ivy League.

Cornell fits in with the Big Ten from a geographical perspective.

The addition of Cornell University to the Big Ten would make a clear statement about the priority of academics and academic research in the Big Ten. Big Ten university presidents would love–I presume–to bring home their long lost brother institution. It would be akin to righting a wrong against nature.

The SEC’s Vanderbilt might also be an interesting option for the Big Ten to consider. Vanderbilt is up to Big Ten standards in terms of academic research & has decent sports plus it could keep company with Northwestern which is the only private school in the Big Ten. Vandy would help to increase the Big Ten’s academic profile & provide a recruiting ground in the football crazed Southeastern US. Nashville is a modest TV market.

Vanderbilt would be a natural addition or complement to ACC schools such as Duke, UNC, Virginia, Georgia Tech and Pittsburgh in terms of geography, athletics, & academics. But Vanderbilt would not take the significant pay cut from SEC membership to ACC membership so this would only work if the ACC AAU member schools became part of the Big Ten.

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Every student and professor at the school would protest over the loss of their “Ivy” affiliation.

It’s an interesting idea, but the biggest problems are competitive weakness, no rivalries (interest), and no TV audience.

If you want to have some real fun on these boards…which school replaces Cornell in the Ivy League if Cornell were to jump? NESCAC alums…start your engines!

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In the past, the Ivy League targeted Northwestern, but NU would not move down to the Ivy League. Too much to lose in terms of athletics & with respect to academic research partnerships.

The University of Chicago might be a reasonable replacement for the Ivy League if Cornell moved up to the Big Ten. Johns Hopkins University might fit in with the Ivy League, but its research budget might be too much for the Ivies to handle. MIT is another for the Ivy League to consider as a replacement for Cornell. Williams College is too small for the Ivy League.

If distance was not a concern, the top targets for Big Ten expansion in order of overall desirabilty might be:

  1. Notre Dame
  2. USC
  3. Texas
  4. Texas A&M
  5. Univ. of Washington (the most underrated school in the nation & huge research budget)
  6. UCLA (Los Angeles TV market)
  7. Stanford
  8. UCal-Berkeley
  9. Georgia Tech–(Atlanta TV market & best football recruiting ground)
  10. Univ. of Pittsburgh (Good TV mkt., huge research budget, Penn State rival, geography)
  11. UNC
  12. Vanderbilt
  13. Colorado
  14. Oregon
  15. Univ. of Florida
  16. Duke
  17. Virginia
  18. Cornell
  19. Kansas
  20. Univ. of Utah
  21. Univ. of Arizona
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I was thinking maybe Georgetown.

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Interesting choice. I suspect that many already think that Georgetown is an Ivy League member school.

Okay.Let’s agree. Big Ten gets Cornell and the Ivy League gets Georgetown.

That was easy. I like negotiating with you.

Now what do we have to give or do to get Notre Dame to the Big Ten ? Probably raid the ACC–assuming that Clemson & FSU are off to the SEC–of its AAU members or just bring on USC ?

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Apocryphal

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Might be doubtful to you, but not to historians, the New York Times, Northwestern,or the Ivy League. The Ivy League also considered the US Naval Academy. & the US Military Academy. Northwestern decided against the move due to travel distances. Was in 1982.

nytimes.com/1982/01/10/sports/ivy-league-considers-adding-two-schools.html

This is an archived New York Times article.

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They were, at best, brainstorming ideas from low-level bureaucrats. Just because it was an NYT story does not make it true.

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Thank you for your opinion, but I’ll go with the NY Times, The Wall Street Journal, the Harvard Crimson, Northwestern, US Naval Academy, and West Point in this matter. And, of course, the Ivy League.

Regardless, it is a moot point now as Northwestern University would never give up the riches of Big Ten membership to move down to the Ivy League.

But, I suspect the the University of Chicago would be interested as it has nothing to lose by such a move.

P.S. In addition to the New York Times, The Wall Street Journal and the Harvard Crimson also reported on the proposed expansion of the Ivy League by adding Northwestern. The Ivy committee was composed of the presidents of Dartmouth College & Brown University and the eight Ivy League athletic directors.

Harvard’s football coach, Joe Restic, commented that Northwestern & the other two would be likely toaccept an offer from the Ivy League. But, Northwestern’s faculty-athletics representative to the Big Ten and NCAA from 1982-2003 commented: “I don’t think too many people remember how close it came at that point.”

The Ivy League probably saw an opening to attract Big Ten charter member school Northwestern University to the Ivy League in 1982 because Northwestern University football was at the tail end of establishing the longest losing record (34 games) in NCAA D-I history. But, Northwestern University had too much to lose in making such a move & dismissed the proposal under the guise of travel distances for athletic contests.

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Until it anything happens its all speculation. Fun to think about and discuss but speculation still.

Texas certainly knows it won’t be ruling the SEC. Going there anyway.

Talk of playoff expansion was happening at the same time as Texas/Oklahoma talking with the SEC. Very much related I would expect.

179

Wow, that discussion turned super interesting!

Cornell would never leave the Ivy League, but what a hypothetical.

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Cornell might jump at the chance to join the Big Ten. Just research the history of Cornell University’s presidents–mostly recruited from the Big Ten–and their affectionate & respectful comments about the Big Ten.

If Cornell were invited to step up to the Big Ten, it would be a huge financial windfall for Cornell both in terms of annual Big Ten athletic payouts & in terms of research partnerships.

Unfortunately, the Big Ten probably sees little value in adding Cornell University due to sub-par football & lack of a meaningful TV & media market, but Cornell University certainly has the research budget to qualify as a Big Ten school.

Cornell University is the only Ivy League school with a School of Agriculture so joining the Big Ten could open up lots of research partnerships in this area.

I think that Pitt & Cornell could fit into the Big Ten (Pitt has long expressed interest in Big Ten membership and has the research budget & athletics & academics & AAU membership sought by the Big Ten).

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Only 1 counts, and she is Dartmouth / Penn.