I believe Psychology 111 typically has an average of approximately 300 students.
I agree UM the classes and rigor will be equal.
But if we are being honest, with its mandate to supoort Michigan residents more broadly, as well as, its sheer size - the academic profile top to bottom at ND is going to be more uniformly elite. Not at the top. Both are equal. So many people are supportive of swat cal Chicago and others being a place of academic intensity and it’s ok. So it’s ok for the OP to have mentioned this as a concern. ND is really like those in a lot ways.
But I would go UM personally for the breadth of research resources, Ann Arbor and the array of kids to meet.
Most state schools do not have class sizes that have 1000 students. Most schools wouldn’t even have academic lecture halls to accommodate that size of classes.
At my kids’ very large flagship univ, I think the largest lecture hall for a few classes is about 275 students.
That’s what I thought.
I also find it hard to believe that MSU has engineering courses with 1000 students in them. If that’s true, I wonder if that’s some sort of Intro to Engineering for incoming frosh.
That sounds more like it.
The student just needs to pick a good school, either UMich, ND, or maybe even another good school, where he’d get the best grades.
Things like “rigor because a school has leaders in the field” means nothing for those who are premed. Of course, many premeds never make it to med school, so going to a school where there are other good options is also important. It doesn’t sound like the student is choosing between UMich, ND and Podunk…so he’ll have options.
@autumn82019 do you have any other concerns? Have your parents run the Net Price Calculators for your schools? Are they fine with paying? Do you have a non-custodial parent?
What other schools are you applying to?
“But if we are being honest, with its mandate to supoort Michigan residents more broadly, as well as, its sheer size - the academic profile top to bottom at ND is going to be more uniformly elite. Not at the top.”
I disagree privatebanker. First of all, it is a myth that student bodies at selective private universities are “uniformly elite”, primarily because there is no such thing as an elite student, but also because with the exception of Caltech and perhaps MIT, even the most selective of universities will admit students based on a multitude of holistic variables, many of which are not entirely academic or intellectual in nature.
And even if there were such a thing, students at selective private universities are not going to be noticeably more “elite” than those at Michigan, not at the top, not in the middle and not at the bottom. According to the latest CDS, the average incoming freshman at Michigan this year graduated with a 3.86 (on a 4.0 scale) cumulative high school GPA and an average SAT/ACT of 1420/32. I doubt there are many private universities that have significantly stronger students academically speaking. Most top private universities would probably have students with similar classroom credentials, and SAT/ACT averages around 1450 (give or take 20-30 points)/33 (give or take half a point), which is not significant.
@IWannaHelp Too rigorous may be not good. It’s not easy to get high GPA. But GPA is the most important in Medical school application.
The CDS does not provide information about the average combined SAT scores of students, so one cannot make that claim. The admissions office does track that information, however, and provides it in chapter 2 (“Undergraduate Students: Admissions & Enrollment”) of the Michigan Almanac.
The median SAT for freshmen entering in fall 2017 was 1350. 1240 and 1440 are the 25th and 75th percentiles, respectively.
“The median SAT for freshmen entering in fall 2017 was 1350. 1240 and 1440 are the 25th and 75th percentiles, respectively.”
My averages were based in the common data set ranges published by universities.
But you make a good point warblersrule, but since no university reports average SAT scores, for the sake of comparison, it is best to go with the reported mid 50% ranges in the individual sections of the SAT, and for the ACT composite.
In the case of Michigan, the mid 50% SAT Math is 670-780 (at the most selective private universities the range usually hovers between 670-770 and 700-800), the mid 50% SAT English is 660-730 (at the most selective private universities the range usually hovers between 670-750 and 700-770), and the mid 50% ACT composite if 30-34 (at the most selective private universities, the range typically hovers between 30-34 and 32-35).
Like I said, the difference is not significant.
Well my kid was in a 1000 intro engineering class… so I think I would know plus if you just google Central Florida and Berkeley have 1000 students lecture with discussions classes… anyways it’s between ND and Michigan I think at the end you need to decide based on what makes you happy
Ya, I don’t know what any of this means, since I’m not an engineer and DC isn’t either :)) , but I pulled this from the UMich Engineering website:
https://eng100.engin.umich.edu/courses_eng100_facres/
For the Fall of 2016 and 2017, a total of 634 and 611 students respectively at UMich enrolled in ENGR100. BUT, I don’t have any idea how many sections those ENGR students were split into, since the LSA course guide is WAY easier to decipher than the Engineering course catalog. However, even if there was only one lecture for all those students, and I don’t think there is only one, ENGR100 doesnt have 1,000 students at Michigan.
“if you just google Central Florida and Berkeley have 1000 students lecture with discussions classes”
Larry Page is a Michigan alum!. Evidently, those large classes filled with “non elite” students did not hurt his prospects. 
@Alexandre Do you ever read anything but the one comment against your school within a post and run with it.
To be clear. I said the schools were equal and I would choose UM if I had the choice. Please try to approach with a sense on balance. Debating is not allowed under TOS.