Hi everyone, I just recently got accepted into University of Notre Dame and Michigan. Umich has always been my dream school, but once I heard about and visited Notre Dame, it instantly became one of my top-choice schools. I am planning on majoring in neuroscience on the pre-med track. I am concerned about the size of Umich, but I appreciate the on-campus hospital and the resources available for a pre-med student. On the other hand, I love the tight community at Notre Dame, but I am worried about studying non-stop at ND because of the challenging academics. Any feedback would be great, thank you!
@autumn82019 I am a Michigan alum and so while I am not familiar with Notre Dame, I can try to address your concerns as they relate to Michigan. Michigan has several living -learning communities which provide the advantage of living in a small college environment within the large research University. See https://lsa.umich.edu/mlc/ Also Check out the Health Services living and learning community where students who are interested in premed and the health fields can live in the same quarter and take part in pre-professional opportunities afforded to their specific living-learning community. https://lsa.umich.edu/hssp/ Also there are non-residential learning communities. And also the Undergraduate Research Opportunity Program (UROP) where you can obtain research opportunities in the science field. Michigan has the same type of challenging academics as Notre Dame, so I wouldn’t let that sway your decision. The advantage of Michigan is there are so many extra-curricular activities (academic, non-acadmic, including intra-mural sports), organizations, Greek life, and sporting events to divert your attention when you need a break. Ultimately I think your decision should be informed by the cost to attend each (and how much aid you get, if any) and your gut, how you fit and see yourself at either one. You should attend Admitted Student/College Day at each in order to help you decide. Good luck with your decision.
“Ultimately I think your decision should be informed by the cost to attend each (and how much aid you get, if any) and your gut, how you fit and see yourself at either one. You should attend Admitted Student/College Day at each in order to help you decide.”
I completely agree with this. Congratulations on your admission to two great schools! You can’t go wrong either way. My D is a neuroscience major (likely not going premed) at ND and while the path is rigorous, she has had plenty of time for fun.
“The advantage of Michigan is there are so many extra-curricular activities (academic, non-acadmic, including intra-mural sports), organizations, Greek life, and sporting events to divert your attention when you need a break.”
There is plenty of this at ND, minus the Greek life, which both of my Ds were happy to not have on campus. Plus, ND beat Michigan this year so it should be the clear favorite. ;
Seriously, though, you can’t go wrong either way.
@suzy100 That football win was last Labor Day weekend. Time to move on. Have you taken a gander at the AP Top 25 in men’s basketball? 
With Ann Arbor, the town is integrated with the campus. Great shops, bars, cafes, restaurants, etc. All walkable and safe. As an LSA, most, if not all, of your classes will be held on Central Campus. To me, Central Campus is small-ish, easily walkable and manageable. But if you’re housed in North Campus, or have to go to the UM hospital, then you have to take a free bus to those parts of campus and the campus can then feel big.
There are 8,500 undergraduates total at ND. The UM Class ot 2022 was around 6,700. So that’s a big difference, but getting your classes and speaking to advisors is actually fairly easy at UM.
They’re both great schools, you’re very lucky. But don’t think for a minute that UM is any less academically challenging, especially in the math and sciences and premed track(s).
One other thing. Student to faculty ratio is 10:1 at ND. UM is 15:1. Per each CDS.
“On the other hand, I love the tight community at Notre Dame,…”
This is an illusion. The size of the university has nothing to do with the “tightness” of the community. You are not going to be friends with all 11,000 students at Notre Dame. Whether you go to a tiny LAC or a huge university, you core group of friends will be roughly the same size (seldom more than a half dozen students or so). The rest of the student body, regardless of size, is irrelevant.
“…but I am worried about studying non-stop at ND because of the challenging academics.”
Notre Dame is not going to be more challenging than Michigan.
Go for the most affordable option. If cost of attendance is not a concern, go with you gut.
This is such an odd statement. You’re going to be studying very hard for top grades at either school. Why would you think that ND would somehow be unique or more difficult??
No mystery there, mom. I think it gets drilled into people that big state schools tend to be impersonal diploma factories, while smallish private schools are personal & intense.
Add to that even the smallest difference in US News ranking & people come to conclusions like that.
If you don’t have personal experience with a variety of colleges, you are going to think broad trends & numerical rankings are more significant & absolute than they are. I live close to Ann Arbor, & know dozens of people who went there for all sorts of degrees. Most don’t feel the slightest intimidated by Ivy grads, which is incomprehensible to a lot of people in other parts of the country.
Yes, I’m confused by the comment about academics being more challenging at ND than at Michigan. Michigan is a top public flagship, with renowned departments in many fields. Anecdotally, I have always thought of Michigan academics as more demanding than ND. One can reasonably choose ND over Michigan for all kinds of reasons, including the Catholic tradition, the smaller undergrad size, and the highly regarded ND alumni network, but I would not have thought that an easier academic path would be one of them.
Vote for ND if you can pay the tuition. Prestigious private universities tend to have more resources for undergraduate education than similar public universities. For example, you will get more smaller size classes in ND, which can help you study and get high GPA easier because you get more individual attention.
But if you are not in wealthy family, Michigan is also good opinion.
A few comments:
–Agree that both school will be very challenging academically. Smaller class sizes at ND may be a benefit in that regard.
–You need to look at finances, especially with med school in your future. Are you instate for UM? Are both schools affordable?
–If affordability is not an issue then look at fit. Go back and re-visit each school and decide where you feel you would be happiest.
–You have two wonderful options so there is no right or wrong choice – congratulations.
Oops, in my post #8 – I flipped the content, please correct that to be, in choosing ND over Michigan, it would not be because ND academics would be more challenging than Michigan.
I would not count on “smaller class sizes” in the premed prereqs and other frosh/soph lecture classes. I don’t know about ND particularly, but MANY privates have large lecture halls for premed prereqs because not only are there many premeds, but the same classes are often req’ts for other STEM majors.
I think I’ve only seen a handful of small LACs promise small class sizes for all classes.
Just checked…ND’s large lecture classes have over 100 students in them. I’m not noting this to be negative. This is just a very common situation. When you have many frosh and soph students needing to take Bio 1, psych 101, etc, schools have to put them in large lecture classes. It’s just a fact of life.
Typically all schools will have the lab classes for these large lecture classes be small. Same with Frosh Comp and English Lit…usually small everywhere.
Well I’d expect Michigan freshman classes to be around 1000 in premed /eng just comparing to Michigan state we’re my son goes to school
The rigor of a program often depends on whether the professors are leading experts in the field. I think UM would actually be the more challenging place because of that. I never heard of ND being particularly challenging (not necessarily a bad thing if you want a more balanced student life).
Oh my! Do they really have 1000-student class-sizes? I can’t imagine how the students see what’s going on in a class that size. I had heard that UCLA had some mega-class sizes. Hadn’t heard that MSU and UMich also have those mega-class-sizes.
Most state schools do… well even large universities that are private could have 400 (my time at Boston university)
The largest lecture hall in Michigan (often used for classes like Orgo, Psych 111/112) is CHEM 1800 - it has a seating capacity of 469 people. Besides a special situation, it is almost impossible to take a class at Michigan with as many as 1000 people in a lecture - the most you will have in a single lecture is around 450.
For the Fall of 2018, Biology 171 Intro to Biology (intro Bio sequence is 171/172/173), UMich offered 5 lecture classes for a total of 568 students or an average of 114 students per lecture. I’m not sure about the weekly discussion sections. If Biology 171 is full, which it was, then students take Biology 172, which is allowed (not considered out of sequence).
Biology 172 is roughly the same. Five lecture classes with about the same amount of students, a little less with 517. So, UMich offers a total of 10 Intro Biology 171/172 classes for roughly 1,100 students.