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Aha! I’ve heard this expression for years but have never seen it written before. Seeing it in print led me to Google it, and now I know where it comes from! Thanks.</p>
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<p>One of my dear friends got one of those! </p>
<p>Although your line might please his dad, the truth is that he did not come down from Mt. Olympus. I think he came from the Sunshine State. He cannot release the Kraken, but he can get you a great deal on a new car. Look him up on CC … he goes by the simple moniker Eadad!</p>
<p>LD,</p>
<p>As much as you want to complain about taxes and NC, the system does a much better job of allocating its resources towards in-state taxpayers than Alabama.</p>
<p>First, UNC Chapel Hill has an 82% in-state enrollment, while U Alabama has only 58% in-state enrollment, so it keeps most of its slots at its coveted state flagship for taxpayers. </p>
<p>In addition, its tuition is $5922, compared to an average state university price of $7605 and much better than Alabama’s $7900. NC residents can attend one the best universities in the country, public or private, for less than the average tuition at any public or private school. </p>
<p>In addition, for those lucky out-of-staters who do get to attend UNC, tuition is set at 24,736, while Alabama’s is at 20,500. </p>
<p>So your state is doing a very good job of using its precious higher education tax dollars towards its taxpayers.</p>
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<p>As much as you want to be cynical about being a taxpayer and not getting any ‘scholarship’, perhaps that’s because the in-state tuition is already relatively low. Would you have felt better if in-state tuition at App State was $7900, as it is in Alabama, and then you got your little $1K award. It seems to me that that’s not as good a deal than what App State is doing now, with $5175 for tuition.</p>
<p>Now we can se why colleges have high list prices and then hand out ‘scholarships’ to lower the price as a way of making the student feel good–exactly what most people complain about in terms of setting college tuition.</p>
<p>SK- agree with your analysis. But I know people who just can’t resist “and they loved him so much they are paying him to go there” even when it’s to a college with an inflated price tag and some pretty insignificant merit scholarships.</p>
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<p>Excellent questions, and to add … is the better way of doing that to throw a little money at a lot of kids, or a lot of money at fewer kids (a la what Alabama is doing)?</p>
<p>There have been discussions with LadyD on the UNC forum about merit money. She expressed her concern at that time that NC will lose top instate students to other states because of their lack of merit money to NMFs. On one of the UNC threads I posted stats for both the 2009 and 2010 freshman classes. SAT scores went up, so I don’t think what she fears happening is actually happening. To add my 2 cents - I think many students are like my son, top students staying instate at a lower priced school that also happens to have an excellent reputation. I think stats will continue to go up. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see. By the way, LadyD’s son would have gotten a $1,000 NMF scholarship from UNC. </p>
<p>Lady D - I think it’s wonderful that your son is getting a full ride to Alabama. Congratulations to him! It’s terrific that his hard work has given him great options.</p>
<p>alh -
I agree that it is a good question. Should my son have gotten merit? I was happy for him. It was a very nice pat on the back and confidence booster, but he had already accepted his spot at UNC when he got it. They didn’t need to woo him. UNC does give most of it’s merit to instate students, but some goes out of state. </p>
<p>lookingforward -
There is talk about this and lots of rumors, but I’m not sure what’s actually happening in the legislature. Costs are increasing next year for both instate and out of state.</p>
<p>Perhaps that’s because the in-state tuition is already relatively low</p>
<p>“Low” is relative. I know there are many folks on CC who can drop $15K to $20K per year without batting an eye. We just don’t happen to be among them.</p>
<p>We’re just middle class enough to not qualify for need-based aid (except loans). At the same time, we’re nearing retirement age and unwilling to ravage our nest egg. That’s why we hoped for some merit aid for our NMF. And that’s why we’re now looking out of state for it.</p>
<p>Look, I appreciate that other folks have different perspectives, and that’s fine. I’m not looking for folks to agree with me. But, if I’m mildly ticked off at the UNC system, I think that’s my prerogative. In the immortal words of Prince Orlofsky, chacun a son gout! ;)</p>
<p>Peace, y’all!</p>
<p>LD</p>
<p>SAT scores went up, so I don’t think what she fears happening is actually happening.</p>
<p>IIRC, the differences were not significant…and there are always small fluctuations (up or down) from year to year. </p>
<p>Besides, aren’t SAT scores supposedly rising everywhere? It’s remotely possible that the SAT is getting dumber…not that kids are getting smarter or that more smart kids are applying.</p>
<p>Moreover, a trend just beginning now (NC brain-drain) would not be reflected in the data for a little while. </p>
<p>I have only anecdotal evidence, but my son is far from the only in-state NMF who is going out of state because of the crummy in-state aid. You should see my PM inbox – oy! :D</p>
<p>Obviously, there’s a reason other states refer to their merit-aid programs as “Retaining Talent” and “Bright Futures” initiatives. I have a hard time believing that these other states are so much dumber than NC…or that NC is so much smarter than they are. No. I think the other states are more forward-thinking, more visionary. Just my 2 cents’ worth; YMMV.</p>
<p>Diane</p>
<p>P.S. Question: If we NCers are so doggone smart, how come large areas of our state have not managed to expand their economic bases beyond dying industries like textiles, furniture, and tobacco? How come we have double-digit unemployment? (Yes, I know about Charlotte and the Triangle…but there’s a whole lot more to NC than those two places.) I dunno. I love NC, but I don’t see patting ourselves on the back at the expense of Alabama and Florida.</p>
<p>“In the immortal words of Prince Orlofsky, chacun a son gout!”</p>
<p>Well now, if everyone who gets bored here is thrown out, then all guests must richly amuse themselves. Hahaha!</p>
<p>Now, how can I not love a fellow opera / operetta fan?? :D</p>
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<p>Maybe it’s because universities are filled with tons of high stats kids with good grades and test scores, who think that the greatest thing to do is to study latin and medieval Irish history, and the kid with slightly lower stats but with great new ideas, good business sense and lots of initiative didn’t get a scholarship and thus couldn’t go and couldn’t complete his/her education.</p>
<p>OK, yes, that’s snarky. But can’t you now see why there might be a reason not simply to do everything by test score and grades?</p>
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<p>As a NC resident, my evidence is also anecdotal. S attended NC Governor’s School last summer and attends the largest and a top HS in the state. We can see from these groups that there are PLENTY of smart, talented kids choosing Carolina for lots of reasons - best fit, financial, scholarships, family tradition, desire for an incredible education etc. Carolina doesn’t have to try that hard to keep enough of the brightest students in-state. They lose plenty to Duke, Davidson, HYP. They still have a high standard of admissions. They are not hurt by NMF’s making different choices. It all comes down to supply & demand.</p>
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<p>I think there’s good statistical evidence to back that up. The state of North Carolina is one of the largest net importers of college students. Schools like Duke, Davidson, Wake Forest, Elon, etc. attract a lot of OOS students. UNC doesn’t bring in as many OOS students as it could if OOS admissions weren’t capped, but by providing a high quality education at in-state tuition that’s affordable for many, it retains a lot of top North Carolina students. So the state is not suffering from a brain drain. </p>
<p>Where North Carolina could possibly do better is in college participation rates of the state’s HS grads, where it’s right around the national average—well below states like Massachusetts, New York, and New Jersey.</p>
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<p>Having said that, does that become the job (so to speak) of community colleges, to get those students in the door for a very low OOP cost?</p>
<p>“Where North Carolina could possibly do better is in college participation rates of the state’s HS grads, where it’s right around the national average—well below states like Massachusetts, New York, and New Jersey.”</p>
<p>It has yet to be established that higher participation rates are necessarily better. It is likely that there is a point of diminishing returns re financial investment. It is doubtful that every state in the union would be best served by 100% participation rate.</p>
<p>Standardized tests are an excellent objective least common denominator. Essays and competitions identify a lot of what the former miss, but are more vulnerable to gaming and corruption.</p>
<p>Perfect will never happen. i say keep both, but exercise vigilance over the latter by way of transparency.</p>
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<p>And that would be . . . because we want some states to be bastions of uneducated and unskilled workers and low-wage jobs? Sorry, I don’t think we’re going to be very good at competing with India, Bangladesh, and Malaysia for that end of the market.</p>
<p>I’m not quite sure I follow your argument here. And anyway, no state in the union is anywhere near a 100% college participation rate. Here in Minnesota we’re pleased that we’re toward the higher end with a college participation rate somewhere north of 70%. We think that gives us a competitive advantage going forward, with a better-educated, higher-skilled workforce. And so far it’s working out pretty well: our unemployment rate is well below the national average, our economic growth rate is well above that of most surrounding states, and our household income is well above the national average, especially in the Twin Cities metro region and in smaller cities like Rochester where the “knowledge jobs” and the highest concentrations of college-educated workers are located. It’s the less-educated parts of the state and the nation that are being left in the dust.</p>
<p>Same in North Carolina, by the way. There’s a pretty sharp bifurcation between highly educated places like the Research Triangle where prospects are generally bright, and the generally less well educated shuttered mill towns where the present is pretty bleak, and the future likely bleaker.</p>
<p>So, if we send the unemployed mill workers to UNC they too can grab PhDs and enjoy the good life in the triangle.</p>
<p>Another NC resident here who is not seeing any evidence of “brain drain” from Carolina. My child attends a large HS in one of the most populated counties in the state and many, many top students end up chosing Carolina. My child is top 5 in her class of 550 and will likely be a NMF and her top choice by far right now is - You guessed it UNC. We attended Carolina 101 last weekend and were so so impressed!</p>