<p>I have a question for knowledgeable CC members. I apologize in advance if this has already been addressed in this thread. I read a few pages, but it is a LOT to go through. Could someone please direct me to the info if it’s here, or some published articles on the topic? Thanks.</p>
<p>A parent from my son’s HS was telling me that counselor told her the average student at Dartmouth pays $11K/yr, the context being I should not dismiss high cost schools as unaffordable so lightly. That number seemed wildly implausible, so I starting looking through CDSs and info on collegedata for the top schools, starting with Dartmouth. I didn’t look at HYP as I understand their aid is higher and didn’t want it confounding things. What I found is puzzling to me. </p>
<p>Once you eliminate the full pays and look only at the kids getting financial aid, it seems like the average EFC of those families at most of these schools is about $20K. The packages tend to average in the low 40’s, with grants in the high 30’s and self-help about 5. I would have thought avg EFC should be at least half of COA, about $30K at most of these schools, if students are equally distributed across income levels. In fact, given the over representation of full pays relative to their numbers in the population as a whole, one might imagine that effect could continue to a lesser extent in the $40-60K EFC range, with those families having similar access to better education and other resources in child-rearing. </p>
<p>Do people know what accounts for this?
They say ‘average’ financial package. Could they mean median?
The effect holds also at schools that don’t offer any merit aid, like Dartmouth, that might push the low-income students’ packages higher due to special scholarships targeted to them.
Does it have something to do with the way incomes are distributed in the US?</p>
<p>I must be missing something here. Or could it actually be that the lower income students are more likely to enroll and make a go of it somehow, than are kids from families like ours with higher EFC who can’t imagine that it’s reasonable to pay so much and compromise our financial position for many years to come.</p>
<p>When I was a high school student 30+ years ago I never heard conversations like this. The assumption was that private school was expensive, full stop. Nowadays, college presentations are full of statements about how the college will work with you to make attending affordable. </p>
<p>^^Maybe, because those high endowment colleges are looking for socio-economic diversity. Lower income students will have “less choice” since the finances are #1 criteria…they can only attend where they can afford and if a college covers their cost then yes, I would think they would grab the opportunity - especially if they have the drive to achieve the GPA and test scores needed to be accepted. The middle class is truly a donut hole for those colleges - those students really add socio-economic diversity for the most part AND families can contribute to the cost. but probably are less willing to spend $30,000 a year or more on a college education…if I’m understanding what you are asking.</p>
<p>Celeste, I think your question is a good one and that is precisely the point that was morphed into poor-bashing somehow earlier in this thread. It’s more difficult to afford these schools when you are “comfortable” but can’t afford to pay what the schools deem is affordable for your situation… </p>
<p>My question is, am I reading the numbers correctly and is it the case that the $30-60K EFC families are underrepresented at these high cost schools?</p>
<p>Or another thought, is there enough effect from families having multiple children in high cost schools at the same time, driving the numbers? Could there be enough doing that? </p>
<p>Again that presumes that the private colleges should be diversified across all income levels. This is completely at the discretion of the individual colleges what their initiatives are with regard to economic (or social) diversity. They could just as easily say “we aren’t going to support socio-economic initiatives” and be entirely within their prerogative to do so. Might unleash tax genies and all kinds of negative publicity but theoretically they could do this. Middle class kids aren’t “shut out” of a college education. Very poor families would be shut out of being able to financially afford a college education.</p>
<p>The number cited for Dartmouth is based on the “average” that is paid by students who are receiving financial aid (I’m not sure whether “average” is the mean or median). Almost half of the students there receive no aid at all.</p>
<p>I am not saying that colleges should have any particular socioeconomic representation. Not trying to portray my demographic as deserving of pity or help. So don’t anyone start yelling at me, please. Just want to understand what is going on with the numbers, what are the facts on the ground. That is all. </p>
<p>I get that almost half are full pay. But once you eliminate them and look at kids on financial aid, it seems there are fewer students in the ‘high EFC but not full pay’ than one might expect given, first of all, the huge numbers of full pay, and 2nd of all, the assumption that just about as many in the near full pay range are high-achieving strivers with ability as are in the full pay category. So the question is, what is happening? Are families in this income range more often not applying? Not getting accepted? Choosing other less expensive schools? I’d really love to see graphs of students attending vs. family income if something like that is out there with any attendant analysis. </p>
<p>But again, I could just be misunderstanding the numbers as I haven’t seen things laid out in a more detailed fashion that might illuminate things for me.</p>
<p>Net Price Calculators, people. If you are honest (and not everyone fills them out accurately) and if you don’t have variable or complicated finances, you’ll have a really good idea of your EFC. For small business owners or consultants, it’s a different story, but for the majority of families who just received a W2 that reflects the overwhelming majority of their income, the NPC will tell you what you need to know.</p>
<p>Personally i think most families with annual incomes under 6 figures are sending their kids to their in-state publics or regional privates that want to grab specific kids away from the two flagships…at least that is what I saw among friends of my 3 sons. Very few middle class families launch a “national search” for college.</p>
<p>I think I’m figuring out at least part of the answer to my question. Until now I only knew our EFC, not how it’s structured generally. Googling around, I see that EFC does not rise linearly with income. At AGI $80K/1 child, it’s 12% of income, and by the ‘top out’ income of $230K, it’s close to 27%. Of course, stupid of me not to assume it’s progressive. At the midpoint income, $115K, EFC is $23.5K, not far from the apparent $20Kish the avg financial packages at these schools imply. Add in effect of having more than one child in school at a time for many families, and the initiatives some of these schools have to eliminate family contribution for incomes below $60K or $80K (which I just read about for the first time today, NOT well informed), and much of the large average package size is explained. I know EFC and CSS determinations are not equivalent and assets, etc. confound, but that gives a baseline for me to at least think about these things. Must be lots of other factors I haven’t considered. </p>
<p>Thanks for sharing, Celeste. We just filled out FAFSA for the first time this past weekend, so this is all new to me. I think you’re right, it must assume no assets. Our AGI is slightly higher, our assets are probably pretty typical given our income, and I was shocked to find out our EFC was north of 6 figures. I knew we wouldn’t qualify for need-based aid (we filled out the form to qualify for loans), but I was still surprised by how very far we were from qualifying.</p>
<p>Celeste—very interesting chart. Had never seen it expressed so that was helpful.</p>
<p>Am I reading it correctly to think that the colleges expect a slightly lower contribution for that one child if parents have additional children at home? Does EFC remain the same if there are two in college at one time? In other words, your $180K income with EFC of $45K—would that be the EFC if there were two children in college at same time, with $22,500 expected for each student, holding all else constant. (As in, assuming both were at schools with identical aid calculations. I realize that is unrealistic, but I just want to understand the process.)</p>
<p>People say that it goes up a bit with 2 in college, but not double. So $45K might go up to 50-55K to be split. I don’t know this from experience, just going by what others say. </p>
<p>I think the lower contribution for 2 or more children is in consideration of the extra costs involved with raising the extra child, or maybe because of all the extra money you have to set aside for college for more than one?</p>
<p>I looked for tables, thinking that though of course any 2D table would have to fix all the ‘extras’ at zero, at least it gives a starting point for understanding it.</p>
<p>@emeraldkity4–that makes sense. Student earnings, work-study, etc….but just roughly, adding another $6K/student perhaps and then otherwise halving the EFC, keeping all else constant? </p>
