<p>PennFan,</p>
<p>MMSS isn't a degree either but MMSS students (mostly econ majors) have more impressive placement than even average Whartonites. This is an honor program within an already top college. I find it absurd you don't see this. Sorry, kyledavid is more persceptive than you. It's not like Kellogg cert students will leave NU with only 4 classes and without a degree in something. LOL!</p>
<p>Sam Lee, can you post the placement rates of MMSS. That should include the number of MMSS graduates and the companies they joined.</p>
<p>Okay, degree in business =/= degree in econ + 4 courses in business, right?</p>
<p>And I agree with Alexandre, post up the MMSS FULL-TIME job offer stats, just like Ross and Wharton do. Until you do so, most people will assume you're talking out of your ass when you say they do better than the average Whartonite. </p>
<p>I could believe that top MMSS > average Wharton, but not average MMSS > average Wharton.</p>
<p>PennFan, I know that placement rates for MMSS students is pretty impressive. But I doubt it is more impressive than placement rates of 3.8+ students at Wharton or Ross.</p>
<p>Like you, I would also like to see hard figures - how many were looking for jobs and what full time offers they got.</p>
<p>And while we're at it, anyone want to explain why Northwestern is not recruited for Credit Suisse or UBS? Those two are the top BBs in Chicago (along with GS) in terms of deal flow but they don't show up here: <a href="http://www.northwestern.edu/careers/surveyoutcomes/recruiting-by-function.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.northwestern.edu/careers/surveyoutcomes/recruiting-by-function.html</a></p>
<p>I can understand how hard it is for NU to have more specific information. Roughly 1,800 undergrads graduate from NU each year. Of those, only 100 have given employment details. Of course, it is safe to say that those are probably going to be the stars, but I am sure many other students who landed very good jobs did not get back to the university. </p>
<p>I know that the college of LSA at Michigan, which graduates roughly 3,500 students annually, cannot possibly give out any statistics on average pay or companies joined. It can merely say what percentage of students found jobs, and even then, this information is often sketchy. </p>
<p>On the other hand, smaller programs, like MMSS, or BBA programs, which have career-offices-on-steroids, should be able to have very accurate information.</p>
<p>joshua:</p>
<p>if you equate academic quality with rankings, why is it that you insist on Haas and Kellogg being "equal" when there is such a large difference in the businessweek ranking between the two schools. why is it, also, that you continue to claim the two schools are "about" equal in their undergraduate education?</p>
<p>let me guess, because they are pretty equal. right? yes the reality is that they are, in fact, roughly equal in academic prestige and quality. regardless of the fact that NU ranks 14th, and has ranked 9th in the past, while UCB ranks 21st in undergrad rankings, the two schools are both undeniably excellent schools and people rarely challenge that fact. whenever we speak of undergrad rankings on this board, UCB students quite often defend theirselves by claiming that rankings favor private schools but never fail to cite the graduate rankings of the same exact source, "USNWR," which clearly rank UCB as a leading school. i don't suppose you'll say the graduate rankings from USNWR are credible while the undergrad rankings aren't.</p>
<p>likewise, despite of your list of rankings that favor UCB over NU, a law degree from UCB isn't going to open any doors that a law degree from NU can't; an undergrad business degree from UCB and an MMSS/Kellogg degree from NU will probably provide equally great opportunities for the respective students. rankings hardly play a difference when the schools being compared are at this caliber.</p>
<p>"NU would look a pity in grad school compared to UCB"? please. if anything, the pity is that you would place so much emphasis on rankings to make such a statement.</p>
<p>EDIT:</p>
<p>besides, come to think of it, the OP didn't even ask for graduate school comparison. graduate rankings in law, medicine and engineering aren't even relevent to the question at hand.</p>
<p>
[quote]
NU "would look a pity" in grad school compared to UCB
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I dont think that is an overstatement. In grad school, only Harvard, MIT, and Stanford can be mentioned in the same breath. Great schools like UCLA, Austin, even UMichigan would look like a peewee as compared to Berkeley. But NU? Dont kid yourself </p>
<p>In the undergrad level, they are generally comparable with a significant edge going to Berkeley when it comes to business or economics:</p>
<p> Hass offers BS in Business and Hass is one of top 3 under biz programs. While NWs trying to leverage off the Kelloggs brand name, its certificate program is new and its too early to make any meaningful evaluation on that program. In other words, a bird in the hand is better than a hundred in flight.</p>
<p> Berkeleys econ deg, especially the math-track one, will open so many fantastique doors for you that many of your peers jaws may drop for the fabulous opportunities that you will get after graduation.</p>
<p>What distinguishes Berkeleys education from the rest of the pack is mostly due to its high-acclaimed faculty that currently includes: 7 Nobel Laureates, 225 members of the Academy of Arts & Sciences, 131 members of the National Academy of Science, 87 members of the National Academy of Engineering, a Poet Laureate Emeritus of the United States, and 141 Guggenheim Fellows, more than any other university in the country. </p>
<p>It was here, only here that two professors discovered plutonium [Pu] in 1941 as well as numerous other elements, including berkelium and californium. Berkeley faculty are quoted daily in newspapers and journals throughout the world as experts in their fields.</p>
<p>In the grad level, however, Berkeley is so much better than NW except the following two areas.</p>
<ol>
<li> Journalism: There is no contest here and NW is simply #1.</li>
<li> Business School (here I would say Haas & Kellogg are comparable)</li>
</ol>
<p>Other than 1& 2. NWs grad programs do look like a peewee compared to Berkeley- one of the few greatest universities in the world.</p>
<p>gd, in defense of Joshua, I think his reaction is a result of CC ignorance. It is sad to see the number of people on this forum who think that private elites likes Duke or NU are better than public elites like Cal just because of the USNWR ranks the private elites slightly higher than the public elites. If the general sentiment on this forum mirrored the general sentiment of academe and of the corporate world at large (that top publics and top privates are pretty much equal), Joshua would not need to defend Cal.</p>
<p>PennFan2012,</p>
<p>I am surprised you didn't realize that list was far from showing everything. Note that N = 135 (not even 10% of the student body).</p>
<p>I admitted that my statement about MMSS vs average Whartonites was purely speculation on my part. Below is a list of internships held in the past couple years: <a href="http://www.mmss.northwestern.edu/current_students/Internship%20Directory.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.mmss.northwestern.edu/current_students/Internship%20Directory.pdf</a></p>
<p>Two interned at UBS by the way. <grin></grin></p>
<p>Considering the size (40 max, 60 max starting this year) and that many do eventually go to graduate schools and go into academia, this is a pretty solid list and is at least very comparable to <a href="http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/wharton/surveys/Wharton2007SummerReport.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/wharton/surveys/Wharton2007SummerReport.pdf</a> (a class that's 16 times bigger than MMSS).</p>
<p>Also this is a rather concentrated group of talents with average SAT of 1470 (likely even higher now): <a href="http://www.mmss.northwestern.edu/alumni/AlumniNewsletter2006.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.mmss.northwestern.edu/alumni/AlumniNewsletter2006.pdf</a> and many alums are highly accomplished. For example, according to this newsletter, two alums just earned actuarial fellowships (passing 9 very rigorous exams; there are only about 2000 people with that distinction in the US). </p>
<p>Rabban,</p>
<p>Wow...thanks for using this opportunity to run such long Berkeley commerical. I've seen you using the same commercial to claim it's better than Harvard or Stanford (how can the likes of Northwestern, WashU, Duke, and yes, UPenn stand a chance?).</p>
<p>PennFan2012,</p>
<p>Rest assured that Northwestern is a target school for Credit Suisse:
<a href="http://www.vault.com/static/profiles/303/30354221541profiles.txt%5B/url%5D">http://www.vault.com/static/profiles/303/30354221541profiles.txt</a></p>
<p>
[quote]
I've seen you using the same commercial to claim it's better than Harvard
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You reminded me of a merchant named Mr Wong who used to be very good at making up the fake claim that the Chinese silk is the best product in the word.</p>
<p>Now I challenge you to prove that I used the same commercial to claim it's better than Harvard (yes you can use search functions) or else Id say awe is you, and from this day forward I shall rename you, sam lee- mr. aweful Wong.</p>
<p>I don't know what the vault people are smoking, but Credit Suisse doesn't even have Northwestern listed on its campus recruiting calendar! Check out the drop down menu.</p>
<p>About that internship list, that is definitely very impressive, but they're not full time job offers. Plenty of interns don't get those offers, if you see where I'm going with this.</p>
<p>PennFan,</p>
<p>The drop down menu shows both Kellogg at Northwestern AND Northwestern.</p>
<p>Edit: now I see what you are saying: Northwestern doesn't appear on the "undergraduate" menu. But note there are a lot of lower-ranked (some way lower) schools on the list; do you really believe they would somehow recruit at all these other schools while leaving NU out? Already I found an error on the menu: Meredith COLLEGE appears under Americas-PhD. Meredith doesn't grant PhD. Somehow in that rather short list of PhD programs, NU appears. LOL!</p>
<p>For "Region", select "Americas - Undergraduate"</p>
<p>The reason you're seeing Kellogg = MBA, Northwestern = PHD</p>
<p>Obviously those "lower" schools are not getting recruited for front-office jobs - they probably go into operations or something. Maybe Credit Suisse thinks Northwestern is too smart for back-office but not good enough for front-office?</p>
<p>i'm sorry but, seriously, let's all stick to the question OP's question.</p>
<p>pennfan, seeing as you are in the wharton class of 2012 "in your dreams," as you've stated, looks like you've yet to be admitted into penn, so why not start advertising wharton once you get in? it's not your alma mater yet, so there's no rush. it's great that you're in love with penn, which is, by the way, no doubt a great school to be in love with, but there's no reason you should try and undermine the quality of "recruitment" in other excellent schools like NU, ALREADY. you're still in high school, yet to have even started the whole college application process, so it's a little early for you to be talking about how Credit Suisse recruits wharton undergrads, and only "grads" from NU and Kellogg.</p>
<p>i don't mean to be offensive, but i thought it was about time we put an end to this tangent. NU gets plenty of top recruiters like JPMorgan, Lehmen Bros., and Goldman Sachs, Citigroup, so we'll do just fine. thanks.</p>
<p>Rabban,</p>
<p>Sorry, I thought you were "sansai" and changed the screename to your current one. But in any case, your graduate rankings may not be relevant. One example is Berkeley med school placement; it doesn't look anything like its mighty graduate rankings.</p>
<p>PennFan2012,</p>
<p>Why don't you think there's an error in the menu, considering there's already one with the PhD menu having a LAC? If anything, it's NU undergrad that's more known than NU PhDs. I think the two are mixed up. Given this and the fact the vault has NU listed as its target school, it's funny how you insisted there's no error.</p>
<p>gd016, it's funny you should say that, because I have never bashed any school in relation to Wharton, or even promoted Wharton on its own. There's simply no need to because everyone knows how good it is.</p>
<p>This thread is about NU and Berkeley and my previous comments dealt specifically with NU vs. Haas. Naturally, recruiting is going to be discussed.</p>