<p>Chubbycheeks - There is a time commitment no doubt but from what I know, it needs a deep understanding of the fundamentals and how to put them to good use to do really well in Olympiads once you have committed the time. I believe a similar understanding exists to do well on an IIT test. Without the needed intellect, it is very hard to do well on any of these tests.</p>
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<p>Yeah, if you call 200,000 people not many. It’s almost equal to the number of people who take the IIT exam, I believe.</p>
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<p>Anything worth doing requires a lot of effort. And no, there are plenty of non-immigrants (and children of immigrants) that make USAMO.</p>
<p>I’m curious, what did you get on the AIME?</p>
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<p>Olympiads require the ability to think and enough insight to solve a challenging problem, in addition to knowledge of the core stuff. The IIT exam (from what I know of it) tests your knowledge of the fundamentals, rather than posing difficult problems.</p>
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<p>Yes, it definitely requires an intimate familiarity with topics not covered in high school. This is where math circles or math clubs play a huge role. Math circles in our area are often run by former olympians from the eastern block. They not only teach those “advanced” topics but also help develop strategic problem solving skills.</p>
<p>IMHO, it is not that difficult to qualify for AIME. USAMO is a lot tougher.</p>
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<p>Look at the names of 2012 qualifiers and judge for yourself:
<a href=“American Mathematics Competitions | Mathematical Association of America”>American Mathematics Competitions | Mathematical Association of America;
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<p>Not well enough to make it to USAMO, Proud, nevertheless. :)</p>
<p>PS: I just realized that mapletree had already posted link to USAMO qualifiers. :o :o :o</p>
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<p>My guess based on what I have seen in our school and school district is that a small fraction of students who take AMC are serious or semi-serious. For example, in our school, out of ~50 students who took the test only 5 or 6 actually did any preparation. OTOH, majority of folks who appear for JEE spend weeks if not months preparing. No? </p>
<p><a href=“and%20children%20of%20immigrants”>quote</a>
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Just to clarify, this is what I meant by 2nd gen</p>
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<p>There’s no data to support this, but don’t a majority of IIT “aspirants” get below 40 on the exam. My personal experience shows that most of this preparation is a lot of overzealous parents sending their kids to “coaching” that they don’t give much of a crap about.
Obviously to compare with AIME, we need ratios, but a majority of IIT aspirants are stupid on a ■■■■■■■■ level. </p>
<p>There seems to be an impression that all kids in good engineering schools are USAMO qualifiers. They’re not. Similarly, all IITians aren’t smart. Most of them just hibernated in Kota for 2 years. It’s stupid to debate about who’s smarter. What’s important is the teaching and opportunities at Universities abroad far exceed that of IIT.</p>
<p>@mapletree Around 400,000 students take the IIT-JEE. Yes, IIT-JEE tests fundamentals, but it has more number of advanced/difficult problems which require more than just the knowledge of fundamentals. Solve an earlier IIT-JEE test to know the level of difficulty.</p>
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<p>Nope, the IIT-JEE math section has no difficult problems. Compared to the AIME (or even to the AMC 12) it’s a breeze. The hardest problems on the IIT exam can be solved with a single “thinking” step, and the rest are simple textbook problems. By contrast, a typical problem on the AIME requires two or more insightful steps to do correctly. However, the IIT exam tests more advanced topics than the AIME, like calculus and very basic linear algebra.</p>
<p>Given this, I don’t really believe that people who study 4 years for a test of that difficulty score a 40. TeslaBoy, could you cite your source?</p>
<p>As an example, when my dad gave me the 2009 IIT exam a few years ago, I easily got 18 or 19 of the problems right out of a 20 problem set. A couple weeks later, I took the 2011 AIME I and got a 3/15.</p>
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<p>You’re insinuating that the average student in the top 100 on the IIT-JEE is better than the average USAMOer at things like art, history, and composition?</p>
<p>@mapletree Have you taken/will you take the IIT-JEE? I want to know your result.</p>
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There are many who just appear for the test without any serious prep. So some might have got 40 or similar scores. Most of the IIT-JEE aspirants prep for 2 years. Very few take 4 years of prep.</p>
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Is it true? You would be in the AIR top 10(atleast in the top 50) if you will take/have taken IIT-JEE with your superior skills. Where do you study?->just want to know.</p>
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<p>Haha, no. I only know about the IIT-JEE because my dad went to IIT Kanpur and was in the top 150, I believe.</p>
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<p>I go to a school near Boston. And no, I would not get anywhere near the top 50 because I’m no good at chemistry. I think that chemistry on the IIT JEE might be harder than the USNCO semifinals (the chemistry exam that the top 400 students in the US take to determine placement on the US IChO team). </p>
<p>And like I said, the math on the IIT exam is not very difficult - getting everything right doesn’t require “superior skills,” it requires you to get lucky and hit on the right approach to a problem in a short period of time. If you know calculus, you should be able to get at least 5 problems right.</p>
<p>Ummm…why are we comparing USAMO to the JEE…All of us do know that there is something like the INMO to counter that and those who top INMO top JEE… That is fact!!</p>
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No one here was comparing the USAMO to the IIT-JEE, that would be ridiculous. I was simply comparing the AMC and the AIME to the IIT exam, because they’re more comparable.</p>
<p>Regardless, it’s interesting to compare the INMO to the USAMO. I assume that you’re talking about this:
[INMO</a> 2011](<a href=“http://olympiads.hbcse.tifr.res.in/uploads/inmo-sol-2011]INMO”>http://olympiads.hbcse.tifr.res.in/uploads/inmo-sol-2011)</p>
<p>IMHO, it’s not much harder than the AIME. The USAMO is definitely much more difficult.</p>
<p>I think the anove discussion ha truly shifted to an impasse. The Indian Student doesnt have much idea oboit the AISME or whatever an the US ones barely know the true sense of JEE exam. You can only compare if you have studied for both which I dont think anyone has so no point… And anout the luck in math section… Well., to stumble apoun the right approach is not luck but practice. It is like the following example:</p>
<p>For Indian students: Saying that Tendulkar just gets lucky and ends up hitting a ywisted ball with the perfect stroke</p>
<p>For American students: Replace cricket with baseball and tendulkar with your favorite personality.</p>
<p>So its mot lick but practice, </p>
<p>18/20 you must be a genius because as someone rightly posted that you would he in top 50 and that too without studying, the equation is just wrong.</p>
<p>^ sorry for so many spelling mistakes. Hope you understanf what I say</p>
<p>I understanf what you say, yes.</p>
<p>I don’t think this debate needs such a diplomatic settlement.
I may have not given the AIME, but as someone who has give the INMO and the IITJEE, i can assuredly say the INMO is in a totally different tier of difficulty than IITJEE. IIT is indeed about speed, thoroughness, knowledge of basics, good estimation and deduction without solving and a decent amount of memorization (Chem). Real Math competitions and ACM Programming competitions are where I believe the real smart people are. Most of the INMO/ICO qualifiers usually make it through the IIT, but a large fragment of people who qualify for the IIT are not as academically gifted as people presume them to be.
Similarly not all people at foreign universities are USAMO qualifiers, but I am still of the opinion that while IIT might have a higher number of “really smart people”, our ratio is much higher.</p>
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<li><p>Math is math, regardless of what I’m studying for. I’ve been an ardent member of my school’s math team and participated in various math contests/exams since sixth grade. Also, I’ve spent a great deal of time practicing for the AMC and related exams. </p></li>
<li><p>No, I’ve taken both exams. What the AMC and the IIT-JEE have in common is that they both test nonroutine math problems, to some extent. You don’t need to specifically study for the IIT-JEE in order to do well on the IIT-JEE test.</p></li>
<li><p>Here’s my reasoning behind the “luck” statement: If you’ve practiced enough, you’ll know all the various approaches to a problem, and you’ll have a good sense of what to try. However, with the time constraint (3 minutes per problem) if you try more than 1 or 2 approaches, you’ll end up wasting your time and doing poorly overall. Of course, lots of practice is a prerequisite, but you need to think of the right approach almost immediately, which usually requires some amount of luck. </p></li>
<li><p>No, I’m not a genius. As I’ve said before, there are a large number of textbook problems on the IIT exam, and the problems that aren’t take one thinking step to solve.</p></li>
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<p>^I second that. My IIT Math Score was in the 110-120 range, and I couldn’t adequately solve more than 1 IMNO problem in my year. IIT Chemistry is the usual culprit.</p>
<p>Tesla, you are 200% right. IIT does seem like a “dull” place full of “idiots.”</p>
<p>[Mood</a> Indigo 2012 - Asia’s Largest College Cultural Festival](<a href=“http://www.moodi.org%5DMood”>http://www.moodi.org)</p>
<p>I take back my words. Asia’s Largest College Cultural Festival is the most hip and happening place in Asia, of course. In fact, Cornell’s Slope Day is bland in comparison. </p>
<p>And of course, this one festival redefines my opinion of every one of the 14,000 IITians that get in every year. They must all be so musically inclined, all extremely capable of organizing a festival of this nature, and all so completely lively, what with their guitars and all. In fact, this one college’s festival makes up for anything I might have had against the 10 or so IITs all around India. I mean, it even has a Fine Arts competition. I guess they’re not as one track-minded as I thought. And speaking? They must all be gifted speakers as well. I think I’m reconsidering my college decision. I got my eyes on Hyde Park and IIT now. Thank you for opening my eyes.</p>