NY Times op-ed: Mishandling Rape

Parents Forum
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<p>Interesting interview with the author of the article shortly after it was published. <a href=“http://www.newsplex.com/home/headlines/EXCLUSIVE-Interview-with-Rolling-Stone-Author-283264421.html”>http://www.newsplex.com/home/headlines/EXCLUSIVE-Interview-with-Rolling-Stone-Author-283264421.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>She started out writing a general article about rape on campus but then focused on UVA. She makes a point of saying it isn’t unique, but the “norm.” Still, what surprised her most was the lack of co-operation from the administration and how difficult it made it to get even basic info about assault on campus. </p>

<p>One thing is notable. While a few people are engaging in knee jerk reactions of defending UVa, the overall impression you get is that lots of people at UVa are aware that sexual assaults are a common part of the social scene, a fact that is upsetting. The author says the attitude is that rape at a frat party is a “party foul” and isn’t taken seriously. By the evening of the day the article was published, the author had gotten lots of emails from current undergrads and recent grads saying they were victims too or knew people who were. </p>

<p>I feel for the victim, not only because of what happened to her, but because I’m afraid she will get caught up in a media circus. I also acknowledge that there’s an excellent chance that the young men who were involved in the attack will get away with it. Still, I am hopeful that the publication of the article will lead to systemic reforms, especially in frat culture. There is no way that seven guys all kept the attack a secret—someone else knew and kept quiet. </p>

<p>Remember Steubenville? The country was horrified by a bunch of drunk guys sitting around yucking it up about a girl who was sexually assaulted while she was passed out. My hunch is that something of the sort happened in Jackie’s case–one of those involved talked. My hope is that one of those who heard a participant ADMIT what happened now comes forward and tells what he knows. Of course, it would be even better if one of those 7 guys stepped forward and 'fessed up–not to get a better plea deal, but because he feels honest and sincere remorse for what he did.</p>

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<p>Here, @Marie1234. I will post this for you again.</p>

<p><a href=“Errors in Inquiry on Rape Allegations Against FSU’s Jameis Winston - The New York Times”>Errors in Inquiry on Rape Allegations Against FSU’s Jameis Winston - The New York Times;

<p>The problem is not women not reporting, to the schools or the police, the problem is the police and the schools not following up on these reports.</p>

<p>Follow up on a few reports and maybe you’ll get more.</p>

<p>You follow up on reports, you investigate, if you want justice. You cover up if you do not. There is a culture of cover up here. And not just at UVA.</p>

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<p>The schools have a motivation to cover up on campus assaults. The police have no such motivation. But, they need evidence.</p>

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<p>Jonri, thanks for the link.</p>

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<p>@marie1234 from the article I linked:</p>

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<p>The problem isn’t reporting, the problem is investigating the reports.</p>

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<p>So, because one girl in Florida didn’t get satisfaction from the cops we should tell girls not to bother fling criminal charges and rely instead on a college committee to handle gang rapes by kicking the scumbags out of school? The justice system is not perfect. We all know that. However, lately it seems to me that young woman are being conditioned to think that cops are going to be mean so don’t bother reporting the assault to them. That’s not good. </p>

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<p>Maire, it’s not one girl in Forida, it’s the history of reporting in this country and the history of police “investigations.”</p>

<p>This isn’t new. If anything, for the first time in history, because these young women are brave enough to defy the rape shield laws and use their names, there is pressure to actually investigate. Rape shield might have kept the survivors names secret, but it also kept them silent.</p>

<p>Not so much, anymore.</p>

<p>Still, the fact remains that reporting will increase when investigations into reports increase. And ask anyone on here, you really don’t want me to start pulling up cases to cite. It annoys people when I do it, but I will.</p>

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<p><a href=“Ignored Rape Claims Revisited - ABC News”>http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=96556&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>poetgrl, I suspect this is what triggered the closer scrutiny of UVA: </p>

<p><a href=“C-VILLE Weekly | Allegations of a botched UVA rape investigation at center of a challenge to the Campus SaVE Act”>C-VILLE Weekly | Allegations of a botched UVA rape investigation at center of a challenge to the Campus SaVE Act;

<p>I’m not arguing that the current system is fine and we should all bury our heads in the sand. Reading the RS article I felt as if I was reading Charlotte Simmons. There’s part of you that doesn’t want to believe it could happen, and the sick feeling in your stomach when you realize it could. </p>

<p>Carry on. </p>

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<p>@sabaray. I was horrified when I realized what was going on at UNC. I really do sympathize.</p>

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<p>Poetgirl, I realize it’s not one girl in FL. According the last statistics I saw about 50-percent of rape reports result in arrest and conviction. Not great, but still better than a college panel with no more authority than the power to expel and a strong motivation to bury accusations if we’re talking about a rich kid or an athlete. </p>

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<p>I don’t think it’s either/or. It’s a big problem and it deserves a wide array of remedies. </p>

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<p>I realize that this thread, like all has wondered a bit throughout the pages, but to go back to the beginning, the only issue I have, is with the premise that if a woman is drunk at the time of sexual encounter then she has by default been raped. </p>

<p>Again, from the original article:</p>

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<p>Did anyone catch “how to get away with murder?” last night? There was an interesting scene between two of the characters where the basic idea was that the sober guy tells the drunk woman that they shouldn’t have sex because she is drunk. The drunk woman bashes him, saying she is a grown ass woman and knows what she wants. It seems under the new guidelines, that would be considered rape. </p>

<p>I think including a scenario like the one above in the general pot, takes away focus from the from the more serious problem where people really are taken advantage of, abused, violated etc. </p>

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<p>I agree that going to police right then and there, especially since she had been punched in the face and cut by glass and was bruised and bleeding–cynically, I think the reaction to obvious physical injuries would be more urgent–would have made it FAR more likely that the guys involved would be arrested. Maybe <em>even</em> found guilty. (Because, you know, although a jury might be convinced that an 18 yr old girl would voluntarily have sex with 7 guys, and being cut by glass from the table was just an unfortunate accident due to her enthusiastic participation, and sure, she got off on being penetrated by a beer bottle…even they would be unlikely to believe that she volunteered to be punched in the face.) /sarcasm</p>

<p>But remember the case of the girl who was gang-raped by football players at Hobart & William Smith? SHE went to the hospital and had a rape kit done, which would have included the DNA of the men who raped her–who were initially denying even having had consensual sex with her, although they changed that story–and the college ignored the rape kit, DNA wasn’t requested from the alleged perps, and they dismissed it in 12 days before the kit was even fully processed, choosing to believe that the 18-yr-old girl actively solicited sex–both vaginal and anal–from three guys on a table in a public place! And she had at least one friendly witness who SAW part of it. </p>

<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/13/us/how-one-college-handled-a-sexual-assault-complaint.html”>http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/13/us/how-one-college-handled-a-sexual-assault-complaint.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I strongly advocate reporting to the police immediately as probably the only way to convict the bastards, but when you read stuff like this it is difficult not to despair.</p>

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<p>Yeah, marie, the police are so very concerned about women who report rape that they don’t even bother to test the rape kits. </p>

<p><a href=“http://www.endthebacklog.org/backlog/what-backlog”>http://www.endthebacklog.org/backlog/what-backlog&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>And marie? 50% of rape reports result in arrest and conviction? You’re dreaming.
<a href=“Exclusive: Rape in America: Justice Denied - CBS News”>http://www.cbsnews.com/news/exclusive-rape-in-america-justice-denied/&lt;/a&gt;

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<p>Note that the unreported rapes, on average, would be harder to prosecute if reported than the reported rates. Women calculate that the police won’t take them seriously if they’d been drinking or they knew the guy, and this is a correct assessment.</p>

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<p>Well, one has to wonder in Virginia how many DAs or Prosecutors were once member of this fraternity. </p>

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<p>Filip is not going to be appointed - AG Herring refused to appoint when made aware of the fraternity affiliation. </p>

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<p>About 20 years ago now, a 13 year old 8th grader in our neighborhood public school reported to her teacher, the assistant VP, and the director of the after school program that a classmate, who was 16, was hassling her. He followed her, said lewd things and told her he wanted to f*C( her. This went on for months.</p>

<p>She next alleged that he raped her. He had followed her to the apartment of her grandmother, who also lives in our neighborhood. (Her grandmother wasn’t home; she had a key and was dropping something off for her.) As the girl exited the apartment, he allegedly grabbed her in a choke hold, dragged her into the laundry room on the same floor and raped her. It was an hour or two before someone else came to do laundry, found the girl bleeding and hysterical on the floor and called an ambulance. Her uterus was torn and she required surgery. A rape kit was done.</p>

<p>The next day, the school was a buzz with the story. Allegedly, the boy told several classmates that he gave that “stuck up b&*… who wouldn’t go out with him” what she deserved.</p>

<p>The boy was arrested. Initially, he plead guilty. However, before accepting the plea, the judge questioned him as to whether the attorney had told him the consequences of being a registered sex offender. The boy said he hadn’t. The judge told him he would vacate the plea. He did…the case went to trial. The boy took the stand and said the sex was consensual. He was a very good looking kid, BTW…which I guess made some jurors believe him or at least created a “reasonable doubt” in their minds. None of the kids who had heard him brag testified. One told someone I know who is a teacher at the school that one of the boy’s older brothers, a convicted felon, paid him a visit and told him what he thought of snitches. The boy was acquitted. The following day, he was back in the same classroom as the girl. The girl refused to go back to school after that.</p>

<p>A couple of months later, one of the boy’s thuggish older brothers–both have done time in prison–passed the girl’s father on the sidewalk. A cop was in plain view. The brother allegedly said something like “How’s that whore daughter of yours–still putting out?” The father lost it and slugged him. The cop arrested the father. He hadn’t heard the remark–just saw the punch. The girl was pursued by the city for “truancy,” since she wasn’t going to school. </p>

<p>I assure you that you that my whole neighborhood believed the girl and her father. It didn’t matter. </p>

<p>It is REALLY hard to get a conviction in a rape case. And, I am told, it is ESPECIALLY hard to get one when the accused has no prior convictions and is good looking. </p>

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<p>The police and prosecutors brought the Parker Gilbert case to trial, even though it had some striking facets that worked against the accuser and are mentioned in this article, one of a number on the subject. The jury ultimately did not convict him. (His family is very wealthy and connected, and he was an athlete. That didn’t make the school or the police sweep it under the rug.) He may not have been convicted, but this will follow him. (This testimony also provides a look into collegiate drinking habits…)</p>

<p><a href=“Valley News - North Haverhill — The former Dartmouth College student who alleges she was raped in a dorm room last spring testified”>http://www.vnews.com/news/11208020-95/accuser-testifies-at-rape-trial&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>After reading Consolation’s link…</p>

<p>I wonder how Anna is doing at Hobart and Smith. She is a strong young woman.</p>