NY Times op-ed: Mishandling Rape

[bengalmombengal]

<p>I think that by having the drinking age set at 21 frats become the central party place on campus. Drinking since its not going to stop would be better to be out in the open whereby it could be monitored. Admittedly I attended a small college but drinking was openly allowed yet regulated and there seemed to be far fewer problems. This allowed no group to control the party scene and kept kids from wondering off campus to find parties. Prohibition during the 30’s nor has the 21 year rule stopped drinking. Drinking hasn’t stopped in the high schools either. Its just not Keg parties as they were in my day but instead Vodka parties that have gone further underground away from adult supervision. </p>

<p>I think alcohol complicates the reporting issue because a whole load of kids are going to get in trouble because drinking is illegal. Not only do the friends have to worry about the rapists going after them but everyone on campus who drinks being angry.</p>

<p>As for the individual who gets raped it is common for them to stay silent for years. Its so traumatic they do not wish to relive the event and it takes a long time to come to terms if ever and to return to some semblance of normalcy. No one wants to relive trauma and going through the court system telling your story to strangers and loved ones is reliving it. And if the evidence is lacking where it comes down to a she said he said scenario the risk is great that the case will be dismissed, and worse yet sued for false accusations bringing a whole new trauma to the trauma that already happened. The decision has to be made as to what is best for the victim. Furthermore our legal system is set up in such a way that those on the stand will be grilled no matter what the case is regarding and being grilled about a humiliating sexual assault some people just can’t do, nor should they be forced to. </p>

<p>And if you were to ask your daughter daily if they were raped in all likelihood they wouldn’t tell you because of the shame they feel. You would hope they would but in reality it just doesn’t work that way.</p>

[sabaray]

<p>Not all students are unconcerned. </p>

<p><a href=“http://www.cavalierdaily.com/article/2014/11/community-confronts-sexual-assault”>http://www.cavalierdaily.com/article/2014/11/community-confronts-sexual-assault&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Not condoning this, but: </p>

<p><a href=“http://www.cavalierdaily.com/article/2014/11/letter-claiming-responsibility-for-phi-kappa-psi-vandalism-lists-anonymous-demands”>Students claiming responsibility for Phi Kappa Psi vandalism submit anonymous letter - The Cavalier Daily - University of Virginia's Student Newspaper;

<p>There have been some criticisms of the RS article by individuals who were interviewed: </p>

<p><a href=“http://www.nbc29.com/story/27443854/sexual-assault-resource-groups-respond-to-rolling-stone-article”>http://www.nbc29.com/story/27443854/sexual-assault-resource-groups-respond-to-rolling-stone-article&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>

One Less President Ashley Brown commends the women who “bravely” shared their stories in the article, but felt the organization and the head of the Sexual Misconduct Board, Dean Nicole Eramo, were unfairly depicted as being passive. She says they help survivors to find the best decision for them without forcing anything on them, and that doesn’t always involve reporting the incident.</p>

<p>"The only time that we feel you need to call the police first and foremost is if someone’s in immediate danger, or is in immediate danger meaning like they might have access to their dorm or to their apartment. That is the only time in which we suggest immediate police action, but again, it all does come back to what that person decides to do,” said Brown.

</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.nbc29.com/story/27443025/friends-of-rape-victim-comment-on-rolling-stone-article”>http://www.nbc29.com/story/27443025/friends-of-rape-victim-comment-on-rolling-stone-article&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>

Alex Pinkleton, one of Jackie’s best friends who is quoted in the article, says she was upset with how the article depicts UVA Dean of Students Nicole Eramo, the woman who counseled Jackie after her gang rape.</p>

<p>“Her portrayal of Dean Eramo is a lot different than how the student body actually feels about Dean Eramo,” said Pinkleton. “For the student body, Dean Eramo is the go-to person who will do everything in her power to support the survivor.”</p>

<p>Pinkleton thinks some of her own quotes were also misinterpreted, saying “I would clarify that I did not mean anyone is intentionally covering up rapes here.”

</p>

<p>My daughter is a UVA graduate. It saddens me to read so many comments that vilify all students - uncaring, self-centered, only concerned for their social status and reputation. That is not the UVA I know. I do not doubt for one instant that this could occur and I don’t think for one second UVA (or any institution of higher learning) is equipped to deal with these very serious allegations. I know Dean Eramo and I do not want to see her made the scapegoat for a much larger institutional problem. When Yeardley Love was murdered, Dean J read some of my comments here and reached out to make sure I knew of resources that were available so I could offer them to my daughter and her friends. The article was written to get people’s attention; now it’s up to the University to not fix what’s broken - because it all is - but to establish a system so this can never happen again. </p>

<p>I appreciate cptofthehouse’s well reasoned comments on this very sad situation. </p>

[Pizzagirl]

<p>Bengalmom, remember that you are talking to women on here who themselves may have been sexually molested and / or raped.
“Furthermore our legal system is set up in such a way that those on the stand will be grilled no matter what the case is regarding and being grilled about a humiliating sexual assault some people just can’t do, nor should they be forced to.”</p>

<p>I sympathize; this is a hard one, because people who are accused of serious crimes also do need the ability to question the people who are accusing them; it can’t all be “she said, so it must be true.” This is the stuff that breaks my heart.</p>

[poetgrl]

<p>It’s silly for any UVA grad to be anything but outraged by the administration, the fraternity in question, and to go to the school and ask them to investigate.</p>

<p>A couple of years ago at UNC, my alma mater, it turned out there were clery reporting issues and that girls were being discouraged from reporting and reports that were made were not being reported on the clery. Further, it was found that a rape survivor was being investigated for honor violations for speaking of having been raped. She faced expulsion. </p>

<p>As alumni, we did not defend the university. In fact, we went to the university and demanded quick and appropriate action. Rapes are no longer looked at by student honor boards. I mean, really?!</p>

<p>The difference is that if you look at the comments from the students on that article, the place where they could speak anonymously, they had the common decency to be horrified by the rapes, not the survivors. The RS comments paint a scary picture from the UVA students.</p>

<p>If your daughter is an alumna? She should go to the university and demand results.</p>

<p>At UNC, Holden Thorpe lost his job (resigned)… And Folt was brought in from Dartmouth, where they have started to address a problem that sounds similar to the one at UVA.</p>

<p>Dartmouth is becoming a leader in addressing rape and fraternity issues particularly because they are being honest about what it is they are dealing with. I don’t see that yet at UVA.</p>

<p>Nobody expelled for sexual assualt since the late 1990s? No way.</p>

[ailinsh1]

<p>@Pizzagirl‌ – But as a fraternity, if they are not creating a fraternity system in which none of this nonsense is tolerated <em>by the other fraternities</em>, much less by the university, then they are complicit, whether it goes on in their house or not. So, let your heart of gold son and his brothers and all the other “good guy” fraternity brothers stand up and <em>DO SOMETHING</em> to clean up the collective fraternity system, while the University is cleaning up theirs. That hasn’t happened. All I’m suggesting is that the parents of the frats at UVa specifically, since it is a systemic problem, refuse to pay dues until the system has been revamped.</p>

[sabaray]

<p>

The RS comments paint a scary picture from the UVA students.

</p>

<p>If they are, in fact, posted by UVA students. </p>

<p>I’m not going to tell my adult daughter that she’s silly if she doesn’t respond in the way you find appropriate or “demand results”, but I’ve no doubt, based on what I’ve observed from her social media postings that she is outraged. </p>

<p>UVA can do better and I’ve no doubt they will. </p>

[TV4caster]

<p>Concerning consent: on another thread I pointed out that a Commonwealths Attorney in Virginia told a group of us that a woman who was drunk could not give consent and that it would be rape if the woman filed charges. What I want to know is what is considered drunk. Another poster made it sound like someone had to be incapacitated (i.e. passed out). Obviously 1 drink doesn’t count so the answer lies somewhere along that continuum. Is it whatever the state’s DUI standard is (e.g. .08 in VA?). </p>

<p>When you think about it there isn’t much difference between saying a person who has been drinking can’t make rational decisions and saying that someone who has been drinking or taking certain medications etc can’t sign legal papers, which I am pretty sure is the case. </p>

[marie1234]

<p>No fraternity fan, but the issue is reporting. If the victim doesn’t report the crime for months there is no evidence. Chances of proving a gang rape are quite good but you do have to go to the police station and then the hospital. Years later is just too late and no-one can be sure what really happened. </p>

[poetgrl]

<p>From the rolling stone article:</p>

<p>

The University of Virginia is one of the 86 schools now under federal investigation, but it has more reason to worry than most of its peers. Because, unlike most schools under scrutiny, where complaints are at issue, UVA is one of only 12 schools under a sweeping investigation known as “compliance review”: a proactive probe launched by the Department of Education’s Office of Civil Rights itself, triggered by concerns about deep-rooted issues. “They are targeted efforts to go after very serious concerns,” says Office of Civil Rights assistant secretary Catherine Lhamon. “We don’t open compliance reviews unless we have something that we think merits it.”

</p>

<p>So, the DOJ, which believes there are problems on at least 86 campuses, believes UVA is one of the 12 worst schools in the country. </p>

[Periwinkle]

<p>I am interested in protecting the rights of anyone accused of a crime. Too many people have been mistakenly convicted of crimes. The Rolling Stone story is very upsetting. However, even an accused male fraternity member has the right to the full protections of the legal system. </p>

<p>I feel terribly for Jackie, the girl in the Rolling Stone story. In hindsight, she should have gone to the hospital, had a rape kit performed, and notified the police. With documented, physical evidence, this story would have been very different. Physical evidence would also have made false accusations less likely. </p>

<p>It’s really hard to talk with girls about the dangers posed by the small population of predators on college campuses. I think it’s a necessary conversation, but unfortunately only with age and experience do kids seem to “get” that their parents’ worries are not exaggerated. </p>

<p>Would I send a girl to UVA? Yes. Why? Well, why would you think it’s any better on any other co-ed campus? Absence of proof is not proof of absence. </p>

<p>How is the Princeton policy working out? <a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S33/26/14M08/[/url]”>http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S33/26/14M08/&lt;/a&gt; They forbid freshmen from having any contact with fraternities or sororities, right? I think that’s a good idea. The first few weeks of freshman year are so dangerous. Kids want to explore, but they don’t have firm groups of friends yet. Some students come to campus with no experience with parties at which alcohol is served. Even if such a policy merely ensures the students going to frats are 19 rather than 18, there’s a benefit. </p>

[Momzie]

<p>I’ve been wondering what concrete steps we can take as parents in regard to this situation. I think that one thing we can do if we have children in fraternities or sororities, or kids who are contemplating joining these organizations is to contact the Greek Life coordinator on that campus and to ask these questions:<br>
"I’m thinking of paying dues for my child to join this organization. Can you tell me what your university policies are on sexual assault? </p>

<p>What kind of training are my kids getting in regard to this issue when they arrive on campus?<br>
What are your Clery Act statistics and are they available online?
Has this particular fraternity that my child is thinking of joining ever experienced any of these issues? If so, how were they handled?</p>

<p>A lot of changing a culture is simply making people comfortable asking these questions and talking about these issues. Train your kids to ask these questions on campus. Ask them when you go on campus tours. When the admissions officer calls your house or meets with your child or has a table at the college fair, ask them these questions. </p>

<p>My hope is that every Greek life coordinator at every university is going to start getting those phone calls today, and that this will drive home the message that this is an extremely important issue which people care about. It’s not a small matter. I will be happy when every campus admission person gets sick of answering these questions because they get asked some variant of these questions every single day for the next year. </p>

<p>I just checked the website for my kids’ colleges and searched under sexual assault. I read through the policies and was pleased to see that the schools appears to have really thoughtfully engaged with these issues – but I will keep asking these questions. I hope other parents will as well.</p>

[poetgrl]

<p>except, reporting isn’t the issue. How reports are received, however MAY be the real issue:</p>

<p>from the rolling stone article:</p>

<p>

[quote]
That it took two decades for Seccuro to achieve some justice is even more disgraceful, since she reported her rape to the UVA administration after leaving the Phi Psi house on that 1984 morning. “I went to the dean covered in scabs and with broken ribs,” she remembers. "And he said, ‘Do you think it was just regrettable sex?’ " Seccuro wanted to call police, but she was incorrectly told Charlottesville police lacked jurisdiction over fraternity houses.</p>

<p>If Seccuro’s story of administrative cover-up and apathy sounds outrageous, it’s actually in keeping with the stories told by other UVA survivors. After one alumna was abducted from a dark, wooded section of campus and raped in 1993, she says she asked a UVA administrator for better lighting. “They told me it would ruin Jefferson’s vision of what the university was supposed to look like,” the alum says. “As if Thomas Jefferson even knew about electric lights!” In 2002 and 2004, two female students, including Susan Russell’s daughter, were unhappy with their sexual-misconduct hearings, which each felt didn’t hold their alleged perpetrators accountable – and each was admonished by UVA administrators to never speak publicly about the proceedings or else they could face expulsion for violating the honor code. For issuing that directive, in 2008 UVA was found in violation of the Clery Act.</p>

<p>

[quote]
</p>

<p>“Each was admonished by UVA administrators to never speak publicly about the proceedings or else they could face expulsion.” From a school which has expelled nobody for rape since the late 1990s?</p>

<p>Securro went in to report after leaving the house and was asked if “it was regrettable sex.”</p>

<p>This is why when posters say women mistake sexual regret for rape, it’s just the same old, same old.</p>

[Momzie]

<p>The Clery Act also means that universities are federally mandated to keep statistics on reported sexual assaults and other crimes and to make them public available. Go to the website for your child’s university and search ‘annual safety report’. You will be able to see how your child’s university is doing in that regard. Make it a priority to know this information as you are making college decisions – and keep asking the administration questions!</p>

[poetgrl]

<p>UVA and many others are in direct violation of the clery act. </p>

[marie1234]

<p>Reporting to the police is what I meant. But, I still haven’t figured out why schools are even involved in investigating crimes. If this occurred as reported in the press it seems very likely that evidence existed that night and the next morning. This is information I had at the age of about 14 and i didn’t get it from my parents so why young woman seem not to know this is a bit of a mystery. If you are the victim of a crime the administration office at you college is the wrong place to go. Call 911.</p>

[poetgrl]

<p>right. Tell that to the girls at FSU</p>

<p><a href=“Errors in Inquiry on Rape Allegations Against FSU’s Jameis Winston - The New York Times”>Errors in Inquiry on Rape Allegations Against FSU’s Jameis Winston - The New York Times;

<p>Women report rape but the reports aren’t pursued.</p>

<p>Then, women are told the problem is they don’t report.</p>

<p>No, the problem is rape.</p>

[TV4caster]

<p>Poet wrote: “It’s silly for any UVA grad to be anything but outraged by the administration, the fraternity in question, and to go to the school and ask them to investigate.”</p>

<p>Well, I am not grad but I am the parent of a current student (and a prospective student) and here is the letter I just wrote to President Sullivan and VP Lampkin after reading the latest statement from the administration. </p>

<p>President Sullivan and VP Lampkin,</p>

<p>I just read the letter from VP Lampkin to UVA students and I would like to comment. </p>

<p>I could go on and on about some of the accusations in the article, and people can argue about who knew what and when they knew it, but there are a few facts that are indisputable. When looked at in totality, those facts make Lampkin’s letter disingenuous at best. </p>

<p>You say "we do not tolerate sexual violence in any form. Sexual assault is a crime that can destroy lives and create profound suffering. It has no place in our society, much less in an academic community characterized by freedom and civility”</p>

<p>That is an outright lie and stinks like PR spin. When an institution routinely kicks kids out permanently for minor honor infractions but only suspends sexual assault perpetrators for a year you cannot claim that you do not tolerate sexual violence. </p>

<p>You also routinely send out notices about assaults and other incidents on campus and in the surrounding community that might impact student safety but I don’t ever remember seeing a notice about an alleged assault at a fraternity house (of which there have been many reports during my 3 years as a UVA parent). </p>

<p>All in all I have been extremely disappointed in the way the University has handled this crisis. It seems like it is more concerned with covering its @$% than admitting culpability and addressing it. </p>

<p>To sum it up: actions speak louder than words, and your words sound fine, while your actions do not.</p>

[poetgrl]

<p>excelllent!!!</p>

<p>This is what we did, too. There were lots of us at UNC.</p>

[dstark]

<p>This idea about the falsly accused., I am sure there are a few. A tiny few. </p>

<p>I find it unlikely that the organization One Less is made up of falsely accusers. </p>

<p>A court of law is one thing but many students at UVA know that rapes are occuring. They also know if rapes are occuring at frat houses and which ones. </p>

<p>With the publication of the article,
It looks like more and more students are coming forward and saying the rapes are not acceptable and the campus culture has to change .</p>

<p>As far as Jackie’s case goes…one of the rapists did not seem to want to rape her but was egged on. Now that this episode has been made public…that anthropology student or somebody else involved may crack.</p>

<p>There are a bunch of students …bricks right now.</p>

[marie1234]

<p>Right, but al of that could have happened years ago with a phone call to the police department and physical evidence.</p>