NYC private school tuition now higher than HARVARD

Parents Forum
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<p>I have no problem whatsoever with private or religious schools (as long as my tax dollars aren't subsidizing them). In fact, one of my children is in private school too, as public school wasn't cutting it for her. The choice is important, for a lot of people. </p>

<p>However, in terms of pressure: sometimes, the drive comes from the kids, and as a parent, responding to that push for more challenges makes a lot of sense. But in my work, I see the kids whose high achieving parents live vicariously through their kids, and push them unbelievably hard, into schools that are inappropriately difficult (and the kids struggle unbearably), and into intense activities as well.</p>

<p>There ought to be time for kids to be kids...not to be so intensely striving, social climbing, thinking about Harvard in fourth grade. Let them go out and play, and stop thinking about their resumes. I think some parents don;t realize the damage they are inflicting on their kids by pushing so hard..and this can be in public or private settings.</p>

<p>My humble opinion, of course.</p>

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<p>I'm going to express what might be a surprising opinion (at least I'm surprised I'm expressing it.) I'm a public school teacher who attended public school in grades 2-12 and two public universities. I'm a firm believer in public education. However, I don't necessarily have a problem with these families shelling out this money for school if they can afford it. </p>

<p>There are truly some places where I wouldn't send my children to public school. I used to teach in a school district that may not have been inner-city New York by any stretch, but it kind of felt like it. We had weapons brought to school (by a 6th and a 4th grader...guns no less). The majority of kids came to kindergarten without basic skills (some didn't even know their last name) so our K teachers had to play a lot of catch up. I heard attitude all day long from both kids and parents. The reality of our situation was that teachers spent a lot more time disciplining than they did teaching. When a child in your room starts throwing desks across the room, you have to stop teaching and get the kids out of the room. In the middle school of this district, we regularly had the police coming to question our students. This is how these kids were raised. I had a child tell me one day that her mom went to jail the night before because she had to beat up their neighbor because her kids were getting in their yard. The lesson this kid learned was that it was ok to go to jail and beat some one up as long as it was for a cause.</p>

<p>Would I have sent kids to this school? No way. Were there some awesome teachers there? Absolutely....however a lot of us ended up leaving after a few years including myself because it was a very stressful work environment. When children tell you things like, "I'm going to put a gang hit out on you" and you are not pulling in $30,000 a year, then you tend to look around at what else is out there. </p>

<p>In the majority of cities and towns, public school is a great option. I like in Birmingham now and I think that spending tuition here is crazy because there are so many strong public school systems in this area. However, I completely recognize that that is a product of where I currently live. Do I think the NYC tuition is insanely high? Sure...but I also think rent and other things in NYC are insanely high. That's why I don't live there. I don't begrudge the parents who want their children going to school that is not like the situation I described and choose to spend that amount of money. I do agree with EmeraldKity that it's odd that they don't just build more schools so that the prices would lower. It might also lose some of the insanity of the admissions process. Again, I wouldn't pay that for school, but my job allows me to live anywhere I want to and I chose to live in a city with a lower cost of living. These people chose to live in a very expensive city with few low cost school options. It's an unfortunate side effect of where they live. My mom went to private school in New Orleans for 12 years for those same reasons.</p>

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<p>Allmuisc:</p>

<p>I agree with you parents should not push their kids to prep school. We have no idea about prep schools. But if kids want to go there it is better than tell them no. Because if you oppose the kid and they have all $35,000 paid by school. How could you say no when parent themselves move to this country for better education. </p>

<p>Our suburban school has excellent education in math and science, but humanities were a totally different experience. If my third kid does not want to go to prep school, I would never send. After all they are the one who has to make choices it is their life.</p>

<p>I would never send the kid if he/she does not get financial aid even if kid wants to go and I have no money. However, if I have $$$$$$ and kid wants to go by all means. Even if I have $$$$$$ and kid choose not to go, it will be wrong to send them. Suburban public schools offer excellent education but do not resources that you could meet the current and former president/vice president of a country and talk to them one of one. You meet the current and former secretary of state and secretary of finance and so on. This is one thing that $35,000 school offers and if kid can take advantages of it. You ask them questions and they tell you what was right. You discuss your project with them and they tell you to do certain things certain way. Believe me not all prep student utilize the benefits to the fullest extent. But if you can, prep school are wonderful place to develop outside the classrooms.</p>

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<p>When we were in NYC, we faced a situation just the opposite of the one Allmusic posited.</p>

<p>We had kids who were academically far above grade level, and the local schools would not cater to such children.</p>

<p>For us at that time, the primary issue was tracking. The public schools didn't track. When students of mixed academic abilties are all lumped together the interests of almost none of them are optimally served. My kids were bored in the public schools, and they weren't learning anything.</p>

<p>For the academically able, private schools solved this issue in two ways. First of all it only admitted academically apt students to start with. Second of all it's smaller class sizes and low student/teacher ratios allowed them to break classes into small groups which were more homogeneous in capabilties. Consequently each group our kids were in could proceed at the pace most closely matched to the needs of our particular kid. The work they did was way beyond grade level. They were no longer bored. They were challenged.</p>

<p>In high school, in many cases the situation is not as drastic because many high schools still do track to an extent. At the least they do this by establishing standards for enrolling in AP classes. Still the degree of tracking that my kids experienced was not the same as at a private school. They went to an allegedly "good" public school, and basically the top 10% there was equivalent to the top 40% at the local private school. This was evident when the college lists came out; it was an affluent area so money wasn't the sole issue. This degree of differing academic capabilities has to, and did I believe, affect the level of the their classes on a daily basis.</p>

<p>The smaller classes in the private school allowed for teachers there to assign more assignments like papers that they had to grade. This helped kids develop their writing skills more.</p>

<p>THe smaller school made it more likely that our kids could have significant participation in various clubs and sports teams. They were competing for slots with 100 kids, not 500+ kids.</p>

<p>So I still see advantages in high school, in at least some cases.</p>

<p>I may be naive, but I don't think most parents select private schools for their own networking. I think they might do it mostly for the reasons I described above. But also if there's a networking angle then it's for the kids' networking. You are putting them in an environment where there are a higher percentage of kids who share intellect, family circumstances, and other interests so it seems reasonable that friendships with like-minded individuals might be more likely in this envirnonment.</p>

<p>We didn't make it there long enough to face a choice vs. Stuyvesant. but the concern would be whether the disparate kids there really socialize, or break down into cliques along cultural and ethnic lines. I've heard it's more the latter. That, plus the large class sizes, and other issues cited above.</p>

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<p>My S goes to Riverdale Country School. Since the school was named in the News Day’s article, I like to share my opinion about the Riverdale educational value. Some might think that it is worth. Others would believe that it is a waste of money. It is true that anyone can get good education from Stuyvesant, Bronx Science, Brooklyn Tech, or other specialized schools. They are all great school. Many students can probable get decent education from inner city school too. My wife went to one of those schools. Her graduation class had more than 1000 students. More then two third of the students dropped out before their junior years. About 100 of them went to 4-year universities, most of them CUNY universities. Yet about 20 of them went to selective colleges. She was one of the lucky one. Therefore I could say that she got a good education in a terrible school. My wife said that she had to work hard to overcome the obstacle to learn and to take the challenging courses. Yet another 950 of her classmates fell to do it. My S would be one of the students who did miserably in my wife’s high school. He would not do well if he is not challenged. He would do enough to get the A but would not do more than his peers. If the teacher asked a one-page report, he would hang the one-page report. If Riverdale needs a 20-page report to get a “A’, he can complaint all he wants but will write the 20-page reports. He is just not a mature student as my wife was in the high school.</p>

<p>Riverdale has provide him a great opportunity that I could not dream of. He is not a great reader or writer. Some children will read Ernest Hemingway, William Shakespeare or James Joyce on the bedtime. If he read, it is mostly the Spiderman comic books. Riverdale observed the problem and put it in a writing class to improve his skill in the lower school. His English teachers are fantastic. They work incessantly to advance his reading and writing. His is getting a very good grade in English now. The teachers do not make him the next Pulitzer Prize winner but he is mastering his English subject. The music and arts department is fantastic too. I could never believe that he could play any music instrument except Play Station 2. Nevertheless he learned to play a music instrument in a class of 8 to 9 students.</p>

<p>He is taking Japanese as foreign language now. His Japanese class has 5 students. The teacher has paid attention to each of them. When he started to study foreign language, he was just not ready to study hard to memorize all the rules and vocabularies. His teacher was concerned enough that she was preparing to meet us after 2 months. Luckily he learned how to study for the subject and is getting decent grade for the class.</p>

<p>My S loves science. Therefore I was not worry about this science class. Yet the teachers have taught him more than I would expect. One of his teachers was a postdoctoral fellow at the Rockefeller University. When we met her in the open house, she emphasized that she was going to teach the student more than earth science. The teacher wanted to teach the students how to do research and write scientific report. It was an early opportunity for my son to learn how scientists conduct researches. This class was not the only class that my son has exposed to higher learning. In fact many faculties have taught in 4-year universities before they came to Riverdale. My S is going to take AP computer science next year. His teacher is already looking forward to bring in some advance college level computer courses after the AP class for the students.</p>

<p>I think my 31200 dollars tuition is worth every cents of it. Riverdale education is NOT a ticket to ivies universities or social climbing. It is a lifetime learning experience. In fact I don’t think that students need to start as early as pre K to get the best of it. They should transfer in at 6th grade to truly appreciate what Riverdale can offer. On a lighter note, Should I spend the tuition money in boats, vacations or cars instead? We are only the middle-class. My S is not going to get a SUV when he turns 16. The money is already spent. We only have one son and we want the best for him. I will choose Riverdale or another prep school for my son. I believe that my S will benefit from the environment. I can understand it if other parents prefer other alternative. It is just a personal decision the parents have to make for their children.</p>

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<p>"It is just a personal decision the parents have to make for their children."</p>

<p>Is it really a personal decision when tuition is $31K and most parents barely make that much in the first place?</p>

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<p>Well, I mean... P Diddy's kids go to my school. I think that if you can afford the best, why not? Also, if you don't make enough money... you can apply for financial aid. I pay like $4000 a year while Diddy pays the full tuition + probably donates money.</p>

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<p>If it's any consolation, this phenomenon is anything but new in the UK - all the top private schools (Westminster, Eton, Winchester etc) have per annum fees of well above 20,000 pounds- that's a good $35,000. This, compared to thousands of free state schools also available in the UK. Makes for a stark contrast...</p>

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<p>So many seem to assume that schooling prior to college is just an effort to get into the best at the college level. These parents are paying to give their children a superb education from the ground up. Sure, many can go to any school and do well enough to go to a top college, but if you can afford it why not pay for your kids to have small classes, study abroad, have access to the arts....instead of buying new furniture?</p>

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<p>* if you can afford it why not pay for your kids to have small classes, study abroad, have access to the arts....instead of buying new furniture?*
THat would have to be some nice furniture- private schools are $22,000+, for high school, and not much cheaper than that for middle or elementary.
While I admit that private schools can have great programs- it isn't always true that there are fewer opportunities.
My daughters private school had a computer tech program that goes to Ghana, her sisters public school has a program that just went to the Phillipines. While my older D went to Costa Rica and Canyonlands in 11th and 12th grade, her sister in public school went to the Shakespeare festival in Ashland and to Hawaii for a marine science trip in 8th gd and to Washington DC/NYC and is planning on joining the tech academy when they go to Africa. Not the only school to go to other countries either, one friend who went to South Africa with her school liked it so much she wants to move there.
Keep in mind these are urban public schools, in a pretty crappy district although I admit not in an area like Chicago where a 10 year old girl was just killed at her birthday party by someone firing through the wall.</p>

<p>An event I am looking forward to is when two senators are coming this weekend to meet with kids from her school, including the 5th ever AA senator !( Incidentally the older brother of a security guard extraordinaire at her high school is running for US Senator, perhaps he will be the 6th ;) )</p>

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<p>Emeraldkity4, seriously, for most of the people in NYC paying full freight at a private, $22,000 (or $30,000) in their case) won't get the decorator past the foyer. There are really good public schools, few of which are in NYC. My point is that unless you have a stellar public, I don't see why paying for high school, or any level school for that matter, is seen any differently than paying for college.</p>

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<p>well perhaps because for some if they pay for private, they won't have any money * left* for college.
I think that most or at least many parents do what they can to procure a good education for their kids. IF that means moving to an area with better public schools, homeschooling, finding a private school, then that is what they do.
We all have different criteria- as a family who have had one child go through expensive private schools K-12 and one who is in public I see both sides. I didn't think that the suburban schools were that much better than our urban schools so we stayed put. Some of the private schools are very good, but others are just expensive. Some of the public schools are gawdawful, but others in the same district are pretty good.
We all have tradeoffs, and some of us have more choices than others, but we all have choices- .
Having had both my kids in private schools at some point, and being involved still with both private and public schools I have a perspective that is a little different. While I know that the private schools were v ery good, I don't have the opinion that some of the parents do, that private school is the only reasonable choice. Many of the parents apparently feel the same way. There are many families for example whose older kids attended private school with my older daughter, who could well afford to send their younger kids, but the younger kids are attending the public school.
There are some opportunities you just can't buy.</p>

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<p>You can go on and opn all you want about your terrific public schools. If your public schools are lousy, it's all beside the point.
ALso, another point folks miss - private school compared to public, like homeschooling compared to either one, is a QUALITATIVELY different experience. It is about ethics, shared values, being part of the community, a respect for excellence, an environment where one is both physically safe and also feels safe to try on many new hats, an intimate community (DS has never been in a class larger than 16).</p>

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<p>but that is what I am trying to say- our public schools are crappy
Our class size is among the largest in the country, the education funding for students is among the lowest in the country, the building where my daughter is attending high school was old when my * mother* went there.</p>

<p>50 % of the students in my section of the city attend private school. We live in a blue collar neighborhood, and we didn't even know anyone who sent their kids to public school for about 10 years.</p>

<p>However my point is that there are some terrific things in public schools. Sure some schools are not that great. My daughter attended one school that had a different principal every year, that had teachers that shouldn't have been teaching anymore, and we had to hire a tutor to help her make up learning she should have gotten at school.</p>

<p>BUt even there she had some wonderful opportunities, that would have looked different if I had, had to pay $25,000 for them.</p>

<p>At her school where she attends now, one teacher for instance has been courted for years by Lakeside, but he has a commitment to public school. I do see the community including the students, much more involved in public school, and that is I think because they don't "pay for it".</p>

<p>When my D was in private school, even though I volunteered regularly, was on the parent board, and went to all her events, I wasn't involved to the level that I am with her sisters school. I also see the students in public school, much more involved in the process of their education out of the classroom, albeit they are trying to improve education for themselves and their classmates but that is an experience they don't get in private school, where all they have to do is express a wish and the parents will raise money for it.</p>

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<p>It is very difficult to generalize about all public or private schools, and emeraldkity1, you should feel blessed to have found educational situations that are productive for both of your children.</p>

<p>I hope that all parents will find the satisfaction you have in both public and private schools, and that others will develop a tolerance for these different choices.</p>

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<p>When we moved to the NW we visited every private school. We liked none of them, instead we enrolled our eldest (youngest was in pre-k) in public school. No regrets. When it came time for high school, we did the same, the choice again was public. We liked the fact that there was a sizable minority population, and an array of incomes. He and all his friends got into the top colleges of their choice, little pressure to keep up with the crowd, and no crazy overkill EC's that I'm aware of. He had fun, girlfriends, and sleep. For whatever the reason top schools seem to like the kids that come from this high school. Could the schools have been better, absolutely. Could there have been more integration in the school, yep. But, I can't really complain too much about his high school experience. It is possible to go public and be happy, and I'm sure it is possible to go private and be happy. If we felt it necessary, we would have gone private, thankfully it was, and in the case of our youngest is, not necessary.</p>

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<p>i go to a great public school. its diverse and safe at the same time. we rank high compared to every other school (private/public) in california.</p>

<p>just bc the money is available, doesn't mean its acceptable to pay high prices for something you can get for free or considerably cheaper</p>

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<p>It's not "acceptable". That's pretty harsh. And saying you're getting the dsame thing for free is , well, just showing that you haven't seen many schools. No 2 are alike, be they public or private, and a good fit is everything. When resources are there, it's wonderful to be able to look at all of the schools in an area and chose the right one for you. My sibs and I ended up at very different schools that reflected our interests, public and private. We were all happy and non troubled kids throughout because of this. We had the ECs we wanted, the school size and feel that made us most comfortable. We know it has been hard on our parents' wallets and we vow to pay them back!</p>

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<p>Also, could you point me to that ranking that ranks every public and private in Cali? I've never seen such a ranking, and I'm doing a study on why so many people think they go to a top school. Is this a technique schools use for pride? Is it motivational? All the kids who claim to go to a top school, public or private, can not possibly be going to a top school. Any thoughts?</p>

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<p>Maybe all of the students in California are above average?</p>