<p>I guess the world is always changing. He is older than me too. In my year he never NEVER would have gotten into Albany unless, by some quirk, he had a very top regents scholarship score. They took off the waiting list according to that one test.</p>
<p>In the class of '76 people with those stats were not going to Albany,and not even New Paltz, I promise you --think Oneonta or Cortland.</p>
<p>Well what goes around comes around --that is right on target for the Albany of today.I wonder when it started to fall back down and how long the heyday lasted?</p>
<p>I still think if SUNY created something real for the top 10%, students would go. I would have no problem sending my kid to a State U like the ones they have in CA, MI or VA 1500 SAT and all. But SUNY did have it.</p>
<p>I think I figured out the discrepancy. Being a political science major at Oswego didn't go for naught! Hubby and I are pre CUNY Open Enrollment students- You guys are post Open Enrollment. I could only imagine that alot of kids who may have opted for CUNY in the late 1960's-early '70's went to SUNY and did not consider B'klyn-Hunter etc. You guys may be the anomilie (or however you spell it) as you had an inordinate amount of kids applying to SUNY back in the mid 1970's --thus the higher scores. The pendulum swings back and more and more kids (even on Long Island) are getting back into the CUNY system. As that gets stronger, the SUNY admission standards may be going back to what they were pre-open enrollment. Now my group of friends may not have gone to Bronx HS but we weren't chop liver either. Most of us were 2 year SP kids, so SAT performance of 1150-1250 from this group did represent the highest caliber student going to SUNY in the 1960's/70's.</p>
<p>It's true --cuny became like the UCONN extension I described above.
With open enrollment and no standards there was a shift to SUNY. I must tell you --it was a shock to me when my older kid applied to college and I found my alma mater so poorly regarded by the GC --I was further shocked when I realized all the scholarships available to him. I do not recall any of my brilliant poor friends from Bronx Science having any such opportunities. Were they available but we were just too low on the social ladder to know? I'd still like to know the answer to that one. My really poor friends all went to Queens College, which was the best CUNY of the day --grades had nothing to do with these choices, nor scores, it was ALL about how much money you had.</p>
<p>Marny --another point. In addition to the recentering, none of us ever SAW the damn SAT test until the day we took it let alone studied for it like kids do today. I would guess that a 1250 taking the test COLD (you take it once without a single practice session) would equal a 1450 today. Anyone can add 100 points to a 1250 with studying: Then the extra hundred for the recentering. </p>
<p>This all goes to show how far SUNY has really fallen. Your 1250 is a far cry from the 1250 of today.</p>
<p>I remember my boyfriend at Albany had a 1450 --that's right before the recentering and without a second of SAT study, and he was smart but many many others like him at Albany. Not today by an order of magnitude.</p>
<p>Back in the day, (If I recall correctly)... SUNYs did not even look at SATs during the admissions process. They went strictly by GPA and Regents Scholarship test scores. There were no letters of recommendation (at least in the city) to speak of either.</p>
<p>Interesting stats about Bing. Another poster reposted the link to his D's hs. Someone might want to look at the Bing acceptances to get an idea of who gets in today. This is an oos hs.</p>
<p>Hi Northeastmom- I am still here!! I am not great in reading the Naviance as this is the first time I saw it- but if I am reading it right - the "average OOS" student applying to Suny Bing had about an 89 average (3.3) and a 1290 on SAT.<br>
I'd say SUNY Bing is encouraging admission to OOS kids, cause that would be bare minimum for a Long Island acceptance. From what I am hearing, most NY kids need an A- (92) average and over 1300 SAT's. I do not doubt NY is trying to get more OOS kids to add to its diversity.<br>
Unfortunately it is hard to encourage OOS kids to come here, as you even have the NYr's complain about the SUNY's. I'll be the first to admit, the ambiance and cultural atmosphere in Binghamton-Oneonta-Cortland etc. ain't exactly the most stimulating. And do not underestimate the dynamic campus atmosphere when you add a big sports program or Greek life that many of the other large State U's have to offer.<br>
My true belief is that SUNY can compete with the academic atmosphere of many of the other State U's- but it cannot compete with the campus life issue. That is why so many of our kids go to OOS U's and we will never get a large % of OOS kids coming to SUNY. A football game at Penn State or Basketball at U Maryland sounds pretty good to me too. If I had been given that opportunity I might have choosen one of those schools instead of Oswego-- but finances ruled in my h/h and my choices were limited to SUNY or CUNY. On the bright side- Oswego did have the best sunsets. That was our nightly activity.</p>
<p>Twinmom- I think SUNY's did look at SAT's. I remember taking an SAT course near Erasmus HS in Brooklyn- I am sure I would not have bothered to do it if SAT's didn't count. I had no intention of staying home and going to a CUNY.</p>
<p>Hi Marny. Well if you go onto naviance and click that scattergram and then U Bing, you will see a chart showing the stats. I know somone from oos who is the graduate of a small private parochial (A average), but only had an 1150 on the sat and was admitted to Bing. I agree with you that it is hard to compete with other oos publics, esp. since SUNY cannot change the weather or surroundings. Plenty of kids pick UVM, which is very cold, but there is Burlington. Sunys have a better price tag though. BTW, I have a relative who is an Oswego grad and he has no regrets.</p>
<p>Here are the absolute stats for 1971 (or maybe 1970), whose relative ranking I posted in post #89 of this thread. Data is From the Cass & Birnbaum College guide, 1972 or so.</p>
<p>Thanks- I think I got the hang of the scattergram- Glad I didn't know about it before cause I could see another way to spend/waste my time. Anyway it looks like the OOS Suny's may be a tad lower than NYS kids- but nothing significant. The 3.3 with 1100 got rejected from New Paltz but the 3.3/ 1130 got into Oneonta. That does seem to be in line with NYS kids. The 4 uni centers ran an average from 3.5-3.85 with 1160 to 1298 SAT's average. Again- a bit lower than NY kids, but doesn't seem to be significantly different. But the NY kid would have a better chance with over 1300 SAT's for the University centers.</p>
<p>Monydad- your stats are pretty much in line in how I remember it. Scores of 1150-1250 seem about right. But the years 1970/1971 are VERY significant in regards to public education in NYS. That was about the time that CUNY went to Open Enrollment. My guess is that it happened between 1970-1974 but I can't be more specific than that. I am sure that many NYC students who may have normally gone CUNY as their older siblings did, decided to go to a SUNY school. Lets not relive the politics- but it was a very contentious time for all.<br>
This may have caused the SAT scores to spike up during the early 1970's- so I do not doubt that some who remember SUNY SAT's at the 1300/1400 are not mistaken. It seems that SUNY scores are back to what they were pre Open enrollment and it should not be construed as a reflection of a failing SUNY system. Just that CUNY is strong again and many more families can afford private education. Of course the kids who went to private U's in the 1970's were not affected by this at all.</p>
<p>in MY day they required the SAT and the regents scholarship score but no recommendation. The averages presented for 1972 a few posts back seem accurate to me. (Average of 1250 or recentered 1350 for Albany.) And you needed a 92 average as I recall to get into Albany; 93 for Stony Brook, and 94 for Bing., approximately --Buffalo maybe 90.</p>
<p>Marny, your post on CUNY really piqued my curiosity to find out more about the changes that took place in the NYS higher ed public school system because the controversy rages on - not the politics but the educational side of what equal opportunity education means and what CUNY's and SUNY's niches are in the NYS educational system. Again, the controversy is directly related to prestige, quality education and any "lowering of the bar" that leads to mediocrity. Anyway, you have a really great memory! CUNY adopted an open enrollment - remedial education policy in 1970. This entailed a drop in admissions standards to a minimum of 80 gpa or class rank in the top 50 to enroll in one of the senior colleges- in 1969 to 1970 the numbers of entering freshman jumped dramatically from 20,000 to 35,000. Not surprisingly, those students who came from lower SES backgrounds and with poorer academic preparation took longer to graduate, partly because many of these students worked as well as studied. CUNY went through another change in 1976 when tuition was charged and admission standard were raised to an 80 gpa or top 35% class ranking which had an immediate and dramatic impact on CUNY enrollment. At this point, many of the middle-class NY students who chose CUNY because it was tuition-free no longer had that reason to prefer it over other colleges - private as well as SUNY - that did charge tuition and had higher admissions standards. CUNY freshmen enrollment numbers dropped by 10,000 in 1976. At the same time, NYS demographics entered into the picture and the CUNY student profile included more ESL students who needed more remediation, not less despite the increase in admssions standards. At this point, CUNY and SUNY institutions targeted quite different student applicant pools. CUNY abandoned open enrollment and remediation in the senior colleges in 1999 and switched the venue for remediation to its junior colleges through outreach, transition and bridge programs. Hunter College aimed to improve its prestige and adopted more competitive admissions standards and to recruit a stronger applicant pool - which put it in competition with private and SUNY schools. The controversy rages on because the issue in question is diversity - the question of who gets into college and who does not - as well as how CUNY is supposed to best serve and fit into the higher ed. needs of New York.</p>
<p>Asteriskea- Thanks for the complement. But I think that is what happens at my age. You remember things that happened 35 years ago but not what you did yesterday. Only kidding! The reality is that there were some heavy duty changes in CUNY in the 1970's and it did lead to a lot of political tension in NYC. So NYC residents of a certain age probably do remember all these things. What I never did before was to connect that development and how it may have affected SUNY admissions in the 1970's. As I said, I was a political science major so I guess I too found it interesting to connect the dots!!</p>
<p>Also to add to the texture of the time. NY'rs always held CUNY in the HIGHEST regard. To say they dropped their standards to an 80% average may not sound too bad- but you must realize that schools like Brooklyn-CCNY-Hunter -Queens etc were held as the epitomy of the highest education you could get. Remember many of us were children or grandchildren of immigrants. And for us to get a BA from CUNY was so special. Maybe because of this background I have always felt a CUNY or SUNY degree was something to be proud of. And I'll admit- I do get defensive when I hear people take a negative attitude towards public education, -- but maybe it is because my family was given wonderful opportunities because of public education. And my guess is that their are alot of others that were given these opportunities too because of CUNY or SUNY.</p>
<p>Marny, my mother is one of them. She attended City College. She would not have attended college if it were not totally free of charge, b/c her parents were poor immigrants. They came to this country legally though.</p>
<p>Marny and Northeastmom, no doubt about it, a lot took place during the 1970s in New York higher ed. and there is a lot to proud of - and SUNY's committment to its fundamental mission to provide quality education for New Yorkers is part of that. New York has weathered fiscal and demographic crises before - to wit the 1976 crunch that led the CUNY to charge tuition - but this time around we do face new challenges that include a defacto privatization of SUNY. As public funds and support dwindle, these schools have to seek more and more funds from private sponsors and other sources. At the same time, each college and university is expected to come up with its own mission and strategic plan - so we see Stony Brook and the other research universities all with similar competing statements for flagship status, each one aimng to be world-class, premier research institutes. At the same time, smaller colleges like Purchase seek to find their own distinctive niche not just in the SUNY system but in terms of all the other great higher ed. institutions located in New York. </p>
<p>Most projections that I have come across emphasize that the demand for public education is expected to increase significantly over the next decade. So, as far as both SUNY and CUNY go, we can and should expect to see a concerted effort to increase both prestige and selectivity, in and out of state. This will also ental more aggressive marketing and recruitment to get the word out in order to build stronger applicant pools. These trends are not just limited to New York or SUNY, the same pressures are at work in Iowa and other parts of the nation. Since I do like to connect the dots, I just want to make mention of the University of Wisconsin at Madison again which has been hailed by many as a miracle in public education because of its successful approach to restoring the luster to its tarnished image as a flagship school that delivers quality education. Changes are in the offing, and UW at Madison is a great example of an institution that continues rise to the challenge to broaden and strengthen its application pool and at the same time increase diversity. The SUNY system is still young, and obviously is in a state of flux. Given time, we might see similar changes in the SUNY schools as taxpayers wants become New York State's needs.</p>
<p>The following , rather long, report issued by the New York State Office of Science Technology and Academic Research (NYSTAR) in February, 2006 testifies to the great impact and dynamic contribution New York's private and public colleges and universities make as engines of the state economy. "During the past year, numerous measures have indicated that New York is on the right track in expanding its high-tech economy and creating tomorrow's jobs."</p>
<p>Back in the sixties ... my sister was denied admission to University at Buffalo but accepted to Cornell's land grant school - now Human Ecology - then - School of Home Economics.</p>
<p>As a NY resident and Suny alum, I'm going to add the perspective of my brother-in-law, a Rutgers graduate. He works for a large investment banking firm in NYC and hires kids right out of college for training programs. He had never heard of Binghamton or Geneseo (until I clued him in!), two of the most selective suny's. He hires grads from all types of schools, not just ivies (and he does hire kids from schools he has never heard of!). With SUNY, he thinks it may not be a quality of education issue, but more of a name recognition issue. And he thinks colleges with "big time" sports programs have "across the country name recognition". People in Chicago have heard of UConn, but have they heard of SUNY Binghamton? I don't want this to get into a sports/vs. quality of education debate, but I think he makes a good point. Good sports programs create some money for colleges, attract oos students, and boost name recognition. And more oos students means more revenue. But what do we as NY'rs want?</p>