Not sure about that. I think fewer domestic students including Asian Americans like to or have to (because of finances) go to graduate school for a PhD in science, particularly when the economy and job market are good. Professors need qualified graduate students to conduct research only to find many good candidates are international students. Not all these international students aspire to be research scientists. Sometimes it’s the only way they could become qualified to work and live in this country.
Well, let’s see
If you work really hard
Take education seriously
Take internships and jobs seriously
You are likely to do better than average.
Oh what a surprise!
This joke of a question is like people who can’t figure out how to lose weight.
I often wonder when people say, “oh when X came to the US, he was so far ahead of US 3rd graders”, or “the parents don’t think the schools are good enough so they do the prep”. Why then would you bring the kid here?
I say this bc this country was created by people educated by this system. We value something more than just hard work or high scores. Here, we also value intellectual curiosity, courage, charisma and the ability to work with others to get things done, that special “something”. It bothers me to hear things like “identify the intelligent kids and pull out” bc that is not what we do here. We don’t limit opportunity to only those we deem worthy, relegating the rest to Siberia.
So if you bring a child to a system you think is inferior, and push that child to become “superior”…Only to find out we are value things other than book learning just as highly, so you are not superior after all? Unfair!
I hope you can follow what I am saying. It’s just something that puzzles me. You can’t expect the culture you move to to adapt to your expectations. We are a nation of ideas and thoughts and impressions, not numbers.
@jym626 You are wrong. The article is not 16 years old.
If you read it you would have seen they looked at the entering class of 1999 and looked at how many graduated within 6 years
If you read the article you may also have noticed that it referenced a study from 2009.
@hrsmom I don’t see what is puzzling about that at all. People aren’t necessarily coming to the US for the k-12 education. There are many other reasons and if the parent knows how much the US lags other countries, they are willing to do the work to make up for it.
It is silly to assume that those parents don’t value and instill attributes of intellectual curiosity, courage, working to get something done with others. They may not value participation trophies as much as the country has, but that is a good thing. This country wasn’t built on participation trophies.
Besides what nation is not a nation of ideas and thoughts and impressions? You mentioned Siberia. Do you think Russia is not such a nation?
Lots of nations are not.
I mention Siberia as “no mans land”. Please don’t impute things that I am not saying. I have no comments on Russia, other than to say it was built in a completely different way.
Nor did I say anything about participation trophies. The qualities I mentioned are not common. They are not fluff or trophy compliments.
Straw men and red herrings…
Regarding the issue of the amount of time spent studying by asians, as compared to other demographic groups…
Spouse & I played competitive sports in HS. My kids also play(ed) competitive sports in HS-- one kid is in college now. Competitive sports are an enjoyable activity that presents many important lessons might be applied off the field. Sports build a strong body and self-esteem. As a parent, I get a vicarious thrill cheering for my kids in competitions.
But now, looking back, I wonder if the effort was worth it. It’s a HUGE time-commitment. More often than not, competitive athletics end after HS. It’s simply not sustainable. As an adult, I might play a social tennis match, but I never have a pick-up lacrosse game. The lessons I learned from playing on a competitive team could also have been learned on a club-level team. That parents push 'traveling teams" really blows my mind.
Perhaps American kids should spend more time hitting the books than hitting a ball. Hitting the books pays off long-term. Hitting a ball on a varsity team, I’m not so sure… My European colleagues think American fixation on sports in school is crazy. So it’s not a racial thing.
Musical instruments ( practice, rehearsals, concerts) and math competitions take time too. Probably not as much though.
But you were implying that those were not qualities that people coming from other companies: “Here we value…” and then follow it up with the statement saying that those people find out that we value things more than “book learning”, again implying that they don’t value it.
I find it laughable that people would think that they don’t value intellectual curiosity, courage, etc.
I am pointing out that many people here value participation trophies - if they didn’t there wouldn’t be so many of them
.
Ok, I’ll bite.
Of those nations whose parents send their kids here and wind up doing so much prep because the K-12 isn’t as good as they thought/hoped it would be, which nations are not a nation of ideas, thoughts and impressions?
Also, what the heck does it mean to be a nation of impressions? That sounds like a shallow thing - shouldn’t it be a nation of substance vs. impressions? What do you even mean by that?
I think it is amusing that people think that people from other nations who see the value in our university system and work environment don’t value intellectual curiosity, courage, and just value numbers.
There was a great exchange in The Big Bang Theory when Sheldon is comparing himself to another prodigy:
Kid: I got my PhD at 16.
Sheldon: Well, I got mine at 15!
Kid: I would have gotten mine earlier, if it didn’t take us a year to escape on boat from N. Korea.
Yeah. Courage.
S1 didn’t continue his sport in college. The non-sustainability is troubling. Even for the athletes who do continue their sport in college seldom play it after college (field hockey?)
Community service & other ECs by contrast (excluding revenue sports), can get taken up to a higher level in college, and beyond.
We learn many things through the time spent doing all that… I would not regret it. It rigorous and teaches you discipline and teamwork. Music teaches that plus patience. Life isn’t all books. We don’t need 500m Albert Einsteins here! Somebody has to play for the Cowboys. Somebody has to paint their face orange and watch the game with their dog Bevo…
Different strokes. It’s just who we are.
And there s nothing wrong with putting all you effort into books. It’s just not for everybody, and we have enough opportunities here that there can be a place for all. The “top” is hardly a worry. Educating the lower end of the ladder should be our priority now.
But witness the number of URM boys in poor communities who think they’re going to make it in pro sports. They’re odds in life are better if they simply studied.
I can’t argue that. But no one teaches them school…football is something they can learn on their own. They aren’t failing themselves. We are failing them.
Sports should be an activity, not your only way out…
The keyword here is: “it’s the only way.” They kind of become the “working ants” under the PI whether they like to do it or not – it could be their only choice.
You may say something similar about the relatively new immigrants (even if they are not 1st generation) when their family is still not in a good shape financially speaking.
@skyoverme you are just reading what you want to see by inference, whether I intend it or not. I’m not here to argue inferences.
Some kids/parents who come here get it, some do not. Some who are born here get it, some do not. Infer away. I’m done arguing.
In the documentary “Waiting for Superman”, I was intrigued by the demand for public boarding school. Maybe, we should should make this voluntarily available to more poor kids. If u can’t get the dysfunction out of the community, then get the kids out of the dysfunction.
“We are a nation of ideas and thoughts and impressions, not numbers.”
The US is the nation of numbers. The ones that have a dollar sign in front.
Your point being?
My point is that I disagree with the previous poster and that US is a country of numbers!
At this point a large and increasing portion of the population is involved in moving money from one pocket into another pocket without producing anything. Majority of thoughts, ideas and impressions are about how to do it more efficiently and get a piece of action along the way.
HRSMom, I agree with your post#150, “life isn’t all books.” Other disciplines teach hard work, teach team work, collaboration, leadership…etc – all necessary for successful living and a desirable society. I think people focus on education because its the surest ticket to upward social mobility. It would seem that the focus on books would be a better answer for ordinary Americans who hope for a better life for their progeny. Most poor families probably can’t afford to indulge their children in poetry or dance or art or competitive equestrian classes/tutors.
I don’t know if it was your intention but elsewhere other posts on CC imply that Asian over-emphasize education at the expense of other activities. This seems like an overly simplistic view. I would bet rich foreigners indulge their children many activities outside of school, just like affluent Americans do. There are world-class Asian athletes, artists, poets… etc. as there are American ones. For the majority of people who are neither rich nor physical/creative gifted, there’s always education.