NYTimes: Race Question on Apps Perplexes Multiracial Students

Applying to College
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<p>@Almost there
MITChris has already stated that there isn’t a cut-and-dry rule for admitting applicants. Applicants are considered holistically; race is only a factor of this complex equation. Not everyone has to have a 2400 on their SATs to be able to handle the courseload given by MIT. In East NY, Brooklyn, for example, there are many intelligent minority students in horribly underfunded and under-resourced high schools. They are smart, and do well, but they just don’t have the same type of SAT preparation as their white or Asian counterparts, usually anyway. Should their SAT score, for example, be such an enormous factor in denying a very qualified minority student just because they haven’t had the resources to perform as well? It is college admissions officers’ job to figure out whether that student will perform well on their college’s level and will be happy there.
Someone from MIT told me and the group I was with recently something to the effect of,
“A student can be a beautiful applicant, but not the right fit for our school. If this person had indicated her interest in studying English Literature intensely in our school, we might not admit her because we only have a couple of English courses. We have to take into account the individual and how they fit into our institution.”
They are looking at the whole person, that person’s interests, abilities, and character to make this judgement.</p>

<p>^To my point earlier, I think that I digressed a bit, and I would like to clarify with a brief example in order to concentrate specifically on mixed students because that is what this thread is about.
If a white/ Hispanic person’s family has abandoned their culture, and that person has and is identified with whites— meaning that he is perceived as white, and truly thinks that he is white, I think that it would be wrong for him to check Hispanic if his family decides to tell him that he is Hispanic for the college admissions process. You haven’t lived your life as a Hispanic, you have lived your life as a white person. That’s the group with which you identify.
If you’ve been raised and have lived as both, then check both, not one that will give you the edge. That is wrong</p>

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<p>64% for white, non-Hispanic, 72% including those who are Hispanic. Whether that is “overwhelmingly” white is a matter of interpretation. However, there is considerable variation by state. Hawaii is 23% non-Hispanic white, while Maine is 98% non-Hispanic white.</p>

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<p>Should there be quotas to raise the white enrollment in universities where white students are (literally) URMs ([for</a> example](<a href=“http://www.ucr.edu/about/facts.html]for”>Rankings and Facts | University of California, Riverside)), even though that would require non-white students to face higher admissions standards than white students?</p>

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<p>I wanted to bump this thread to share something that MIT’s Director of Minority Recruitment, David duKor-Jackson, wrote on our website about the original piece in NYT: </p>

<p>[Putting</a> Diversity into Context | MIT Admissions](<a href=“http://mitadmissions.org/blogs/entry/which-box-should-i-check]Putting”>Putting Diversity into Context | MIT Admissions)</p>

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<p>I’ve already given my opinion repeatedly in this thread, but I wanted to share what David, who runs our diversity outreach, thinks of it as well. And if I had to emphasize anything David wrote, it’d be the last few paragraphs.</p>

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<p>Thanks, MITchris for the comments from your colleague. That was well said.</p>

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<p>Do “institutional priorities” include recruitment of URMs?</p>

<p>Releasing admission date for each racial group will answer many questions.</p>

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<p>Hi 20more -</p>

<p>We have released those data in the past in the MITCC forum. We do recruit URMs. We also recruit poor folk of all backgrounds. And rural folks. And science research superstars. And a lot of other people who would valuable perspectives and experiences to MIT, and contribute to our community.</p>

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<p>This is the key part of David’s piece IMHO:</p>

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<p>“We do recruit URMs.”
Thank you for your answer.</p>

<p>Do we need this part of your answer for this thread?
“We also recruit poor folk of all backgrounds. And rural folks. And science research superstars. And a lot of other people who would valuable perspectives and experiences to MIT, and contribute to our community.”</p>

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<p>Yes. If you don’t understand why you need that part of the answer, then you don’t understand the question you are asking.</p>

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<p>MITChris, what are your thoughts on students declining to self-identify?</p>

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<p>I think it’s fine if students do that. I think the fear - or beliefs - that causes students to decline to self-identify is fundamentally misplaced, but I understand it.</p>

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<p>I don’t understand why you need that part of the answer and I thought I understood exactly what 20more was asking. You can have poor folks, rural folks, science research superstars of any race. Racial preference not only does little to create a diverse campus besides preserving the racial ratio that people are comfortable with coming to college, it dilutes the achievement and reputation of minority students attending top schools. </p>

<p>If the admission office claims to look at each applicant holistically, why not look at each’s life experiences regardless of race? You’ll still have your diverse class: if, as the MITChris claims, people can bring in unique perspectives just by the virtue of their skin color, then underrepresented minority students will doubtlessly be admitted in great numbers in an admission process that looks at life experience and individuality regardless of race.</p>

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<p>So what exactly is the misplaced belief?</p>

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<p>First of all - I don’t think that it does dilute the achievement and reputation of minority students attending top schools, except by misinterpretation of the process that brought them there. </p>

<p>I will take any URM student we admit to MIT and stack up their accomplishments next to any other student we admit. Their accomplishments may manifest differently, but they are just as outstanding, just as amazing, as any other kids we admit, measured by any other metric. </p>

<p>Second: </p>

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<p>I’m not sure I’m parsing this correctly. I don’t think it is possible to look at life experience regardless of race, because I think that race, and ethnic identity, structure the way we live our lives. Look at Clearbrooke in the OP: she herself has said that she, as a multiethnic student, has often found herself caught between different groups, different assumptions, and different identities as a result. This experience is fundamentally due to her race; it is an experience that won’t, of itself, get her into MIT, but it’s an experience that it is important for us to know about, just as it is important for us to know about other experiences, or quandaries, or challenges students have faced. </p>

<p>Maybe this is what you were suggesting? That we’re looking for life experiences and not racial quotas? In that case…that’s what we do. But I don’t think that’s looking at applicants “regardless of race.” I think that is looking at race as an aspect of that student’s life - the same way we look at where they live, at what their school offered, at opportunities they’ve had, etc. </p>

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<p>I think - and maybe I’m wrong - that some students, particularly caucasian and Asian students, think they are at a disadvantage in our admissions process. And that isn’t true. We don’t have limits on students. We don’t say “oh we can only take so many Asian students from North Jersey” (a theory I saw posted elsewhere on CC). We don’t place any of our students at a disadvantage. </p>

<p>What we do is try to understand what students have done with the opportunities they have been given. This gets to what David said, which I’ll quote again: </p>

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<p>As a good willed admission officer, of course you’ll not think that way about the kids you handpicked to admit. But in the employment world it’s sometimes the people who misinterpret the process that brought top URMs to college who do the hiring. If you need studies to convince you that racial preference dilutes the achievement of minority students, I would be happy to go search for some.</p>

<p>The URM students I’ve met at top schools can stack up their accomplishments next to any other student of a different ethnicity. I’m sure they weren’t admitted because of the color of their skin but by their maturity, unique life experiences, achievements, and evidence of character. Remove the universal consideration of race from the admission process and I fail to see how their accomplishment could’ve gone unnoticed… unless that is not the case?</p>

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<p>This is a controversial topic that garnered endless debate and most of us have agreed to disagree. I think college admission puts more emphasis on the impact of race than it deserves, while not enough emphasis on other factors that are more indicative of actual life experience. I also think that there seems to be a non-discriminatory “bump” to some kids based solely on the color of their skin, even though it may not have had any defining impact on their lives as it might have had for others. If your ethnic identity structured your life so much, then it’ll make its way into the essays, and other aspects of the app. If it’s not important enough to be included, it’s not making enough impact to be considered. </p>

<p>I have no problem with anyone refusing to check ethnicity as a political stance against the concept of race. If someone half black considered herself black to game admissions, that’s partially the fault of the admission system for putting the temptation into the hands of the students and, in many cases, making them hyper aware of their race for perhaps the first time. If MIT and other universities truly look for life experiences instead of racial quotas, then what race you check in a box should matter little, if any at all. If Clearbrooke faced few of the challenges troubling certain African American students living in underperforming schools and poor neighborhoods, then she shouldn’t have received from the admission office any benefit for simply putting down AA on her app, and you wouldn’t have reacted so strongly to her action. I understand the importance of racial diversity to a school and political significance of representation of minorities in higher education, but artificial inflation of minority representation does little to solve the bigger problems at their roots. </p>

<p>It’s heartening, however, to know that as an admission officer you believe in what you do with sincerity. CC is a place of diverse opinion, so I hope you can also respect the fact that different people can feel differently about an issue.</p>

<p>Good night!</p>

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<p>“Regardless of one’s background…”
I am sorry but I just don’t buy that claim made by selective colleges.
I don’t think any of my Asian friends will buy that claim either.</p>

<p>As far as I can tell Clearbrooke did what she had to do.</p>

<p>xrCalico23 described it best.
“If someone half black considered herself black to game admissions, that’s partially THE FAULT OF ADMISSION SYSTEM for putting the temptation into the hands of the students and, in many cases, making them hyper aware of their race for perhaps the first time.”</p>

<p>If “institutional priorities” of selective colleges include recruitment of URMs, then WHY NOT?</p>

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<p>Well, as Calico said - agree to disagree. </p>

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<p>because she lied</p>

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<p>As I wrote to you pages back, I can’t agree with this. Clearbrooke is half-black; she had every “right” to check that box. Her situation is VERY different from CC’ers who make threads that ask variants of, “My family is from Africa, but we’re not black. Can I claim to be African-American?”</p>

<p>When it comes to the issue of racial classification in admissions, let me be blunt, Chris–I think people in your occupation have done an absolutely horrible job of convincing stressed out high schoolers that it doesn’t play as big a role as they fear.</p>

<p>You ignored it in my first post to you in this thread, but your counterpart at Rice was quoted in the Times as saying, “From an academic standpoint, the qualifying records, the test scores, how many AP courses, they may all look alike…[t]hat’s when we might go and say, ‘This kid has a Spanish surname. Let’s see what he wrote.’” How would a high schooler who doesn’t have an Iberian surname react when he reads that in a reputable newspaper like the Times?</p>

<p>Administrators more generally aren’t any better, either. Three former high-ranking administrators at the University of Florida [wrote</a> a paper](<a href=“Admissions and Public Higher Education in California, Texas, and Florida: The Post-Affirmative Action Era”>Admissions and Public Higher Education in California, Texas, and Florida: The Post-Affirmative Action Era) stating that “Asian-American students in California were the major beneficiaries of Proposition 209 in California.” Now, I think their graphs are misleading as the axes aren’t consistent and values between the year ticks appear to be interpolated, but how would an Asian high schooler who fears negative action react to reading that sentence? (Somewhat ironically, the authors appear to SUPPORT racial preferences.)</p>

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<p>“If someone half black considered herself black to game admissions, that’s partially THE FAULT OF ADMISSION SYSTEM for putting the temptation into the hands of the students and, in many cases, making them hyper aware of their race for perhaps the first time.”</p>

<p>There were many multiracial kids in my high school.
Half Asian kids do not want to check the Asian box unless they have distinct Asian names.
Half African American (or Hispanic) kids want to identify themselves as African Americans (or Hispanics).</p>

<p>If you believe Clearbrooke lied, then I can assure you that there are MANY MANY liars in every admission cycle.</p>

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<p>She did not lie. She may not have told the whole truth, but she did tell the truth.</p>

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<p>Not telling the whole truth is lying. You can’t tell a part of it. it’s the <em>whole</em> truth or nothing.</p>