<p>hey guys,
i don't usually come here, but i'm visiting india right now for the first time and it is interesting to see the coverage and responce to the OBC reservations for public colleges (IIT, etc...) I was wondering what your guys' thoughts and reactions to this was, and also if any of you guys had any stats or figures such as percentages and etc... concerning this proposition and OBC'c ... it's kinda hard to tell from the news cause it's incredibly one sised against it as all of the major news stations are owned by people of upper castes and it would only make sence for them to protect their intrests in only giving one side of the story ... if anybody could help give me any thought, or facts i would be grateful, - thanks</p>
<p>49.5% reservation in central colleges and most probably in Maharashtra very soon.</p>
<p>Its a step by the govt. just to "curtain" their failures in formulating and enacting the education policy of India.</p>
<p>How can they make a 50% reservation for a group which comprises <50% of the Indian population? That's blatant discrimination, whichever kind it is and whatever name or rationale they assign to it.</p>
<p>well its now 50% total coz .. they have also proposed a hike in already present SC quota citing increase in population by the 2001 census..</p>
<p>SM</p>
<p>Rang de Basanti !!</p>
<p>Its a ridiculous step, to make 49.5% SC/ST/OBCs reservations ! I'm totally against it.. and I really hope they change it back to how it was earlier..</p>
<p>"it's kinda hard to tell from the news cause it's incredibly one sised against it as all of the major news stations are owned by people of upper castes"</p>
<p>Ok, caste really doesnt make any difference in our day to day lives in India anymore, and specially in bigger cities, for example those which have the major news stations...so you can be sure that news coming out of these news station is not biased because its run by 'upper caste people' . Political biases are definitely there but I don't think News channe;s and agencies like NDTV/Aaj Tak are in any way influenced bcoz of caste considerations. </p>
<p>And again, the very fact that caste doesn't play any major role in day to day life is the reason why making 50% reservations for OBCs is such a redundant step...</p>
<p>The definition of OBC is really obscure. A rich community which is poor in a specific state can be considered an OBC. Muslims fall under it in many places.</p>
<p>But the main thing is that OBC still implies a community and not just all people below a certain income level.This is what hurts most I think.</p>
<p>
well, not trying to defend the quotas or anything, but the OBC castes comprise about 52% of Indian population, the SCs are more like 12-15%. And well about the economic quotas, the same was proposed in 1990 as well, but the question wasn't to narrow the income disparity, but it was more along the lines of bringing the historically 'oppressed' classes into a position of self-sufficiency, more like the affirmative action in usa.
According to me, the affirmative action model of us is a much better model for india to follow. Although it is a slow way of bringing about the change, it is economically and politically more efficient.</p>
<p>I was watching Big Fight, and I realized that the SCs are very antagonistic to what they refer to as the 'brahmanical castes'.</p>
<p>
[quote]
but the OBC castes comprise about 52% of Indian population
[/quote]
Really? Sorry I was ignorant.. :-/ But I'm still against it nonetheless.</p>
<p>And, It seems that the "economic" quota idea is more like mild communism/socialism, isnt it? There are lots of ways that it can go out of hand and infact totally mess up the whole system (not that it's not messed up already, but still).</p>
<p>Also, another concern is that in India, unfortunately, anything can be misused. If an affirmative action type system is put into place, that will be heavily abused anyway, like the quota system is being abused now (not just caste/class based, e.g. many of the students I know got fake sports certificates to get admission under "sports quota" in colleges). The only thing that seems reasonable to me is that everyone completely erase the concept of "historically oppressed classes" from their minds, and treat all as equal. There will be no more excuse for an OBC student to perform poorly than there will be for a general class student (ie. money, family, personal problems, and not mere caste). Of course there is the argument that you cannot expect a man to run after havin been chained for years, but hey, 60 years is enough. And by the way, if you keep giving head starts to the "oppressed" they are never going to be able to compete anyway.</p>
<p>[quota=merc]The only thing that seems reasonable to me is that everyone completely erase the concept of "historically oppressed classes" from their minds, and treat all as equal.[/quota]
Not possible, economically speaking, the people who discriminate against the OBCs do that for a reason, they gain a sort of 'benefit' which to them is as good as a tangible economic benefit. There is no reason for them to give up their beliefs in a matter of 60 years, ESPECIALLY if the OBCs aren't as well educated, and thus, as well educated as the general classes.
So, to ensure that the OBCs are as productive as the general classes, we have to ensure that they gain an education as good as the general classes - so, this makes sense for affirmative action in educational areas (But this does not justify quotas, they just make no sense), saying that, enforcing quotas or even affirmative action in professional areas just slows down the economy because of inefficiency.
Thats why i would be in favor of affirmative action in the educational areas, they might get misused, but thats a price that we have to pay to weed out the caste system out of indian culture. (And it is, very much, a part of indian society. Not in the major cities but in the smaller towns, villages, people still do follow those things.)</p>
<p>but if you truley believe that caste doesn't play any factor in everyday lives of people in india, then do u think eveybody has acess to the same oppertunities/possibilies ... ? (ie: do u think that india is a true meritocrousy, without any outside influences?) if so, do u think that the only reason kids fom upper casts get into the more elite schools at a disspraportionate percentage when compared to the overall population figures is because they are innatly "smarter" then kids of other religions/castes?</p>
<p>I think you meant
[quote]
,or was that subtle sarcasm? I miss these things sometimes.</p>
<p>
Sorry about that.....i meant (quote), no sarcasms here.</p>
<p>
well, i do BELIEVE that caste has a significant effect on day to day life of many indians and people from the general category traditionally got into prestigious schools/colleges at a disproportionate percentage, that is, until 1990 until Mandal 'reforms' was enforced. But that wasn't because the general category people were inherently smarter, thats biologically impossible! It was because the the upper classes legitimately discriminated against the lower ones in many areas of the country and in order to give equal opportunity to the lower classes, the quotas were enforced. You can think of this situation as to be very similar to the one in US from 1890 to 1960s, where all the whites had discriminated against the african americans.</p>
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<p>Yes. I watched that too. I agree with u.</p>
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<p>Obviously everybody in India doesnt have access to the same opportunities, but what I want to say is that caste has very little to do with that, the inequality in availability of opportunities, educational or financial, is a result of various other factors which play a much bigger role than a person's caste.</p>
<p>"Obviously everybody in India doesnt have access to the same opportunities, but what I want to say is that caste has very little to do with that, the inequality in availability of opportunities, educational or financial, is a result of various other factors which play a much bigger role than a person's caste."</p>
<p>lol iono how to quote .... but if cast has little to nothing to do with a persons financial/educational backround then why do u think that people such as dhalits and other lower casts/religion are as under represented as they currently are...?</p>
<p>also ... if you believe that it's just something that's going to equal it's self out over the course of time - i would have to disagree with the agressive type of "laissez-faire" capitalism that's india is using, the upper and lower classes are growing economicly further and further appart - making it that much harder for people of lower income (and by looking at the 2001 census, the lower economic class of inida was most deff made up of people of lower casts/religions) to compete on a level feild ...</p>
<p>You say this after years of xperience, or having made one trip to India?</p>