<p>yes, I know this is a strange pair to be comparing, but I'm pretty sure this is what my choices will come down to. The issue is that I've been accepted to Oberlin's double degree program with the conservatory and the college. If I go there, I'd get a bachelors of music in performance along with a BA in some combination of English and "law and society". Plus, they're giving me approximately 16,000 in merit scholarships, which is tempting when I'm pretty positive I'm going to grad school of some sort, most likely law.
On the other hand, I love a lot of Williams programs and it has a better overall reputation (though not for music) and record of grad school placement. Students at Williams have a reputation for being more "normal." I'd also love to study abroad and take tutorials, which wouldn't be possible at Oberlin. However, I'd be paying full tuition. Any suggestions?</p>
<p>Don't mean to hijack this thread too, but have you visited both schools?</p>
<p>If you "normal," you mean preppier, you're right. Oberlin's students are more diverse and edgier. If money isn't an issue and you can easily pass up the merit aid, visit both campuses and decide that way. Very different campus cultures and you'll probably get a feel of where you fit in. My son -- who's very "normal" - i.e. not at all a grungy hippy, politically moderate, intellectually curious -- is at Oberlin and couldn't be happier. When we visited Willilams and Amherst last year, he was totally turned off.</p>
<p>I visited williams over last summer, and will be heading back for admitted students days tomorrow. I've been on oberlin's campus several times, for auditions and such, but I'll be going to all roads over spring break. Another factor in my decision is the in state vs. out of state issue. It would be nice to get out of ohio... but then again, williams is more in the middle of nowhere than oberlin is.</p>
<p>You should go to Williams. There. I made the decision for you... Phewwww that was tough :-)</p>
<p>one thing I'm really concerned about is a lack of political activity at williams. I tend to lean left of center, have seriously considered becoming a vegeterian when I go to college, and am already pumped about the 2008 presidential campaign. As is probably apparent from my description of myself, I have nothing against political activists, somewhat well-groomed hippies, etc, so in that sense I'm not worried about fitting in at oberlin. I have heard rumors that obies tend to lack social skills (think uchicago). This is probably an inaccurate stereotype, but I figured I'd ask around to see how much merit there is to it.
In case you can't tell, I'm horrible at making decisions, but thanks so much everyone for all your advice. I guess I'll make up my mind eventually. :-)</p>
<p>They're both great schools academically, and among grad schools, Oberlin is absolutely as "prestigious" as Williams. But there's no comparison between musical opportunities at Oberlin and those at Williams; if you're serious about music, and want to spend the extra year to do the double-degree program, I would definitely choose Oberlin. And don't worry about fitting in--as mchs says, there are lots of "normal" students at Oberlin.</p>
<p>why is it not possible to study abroad if you attend Oberlin? (just a question)</p>
<p>double degree program. It's a five year program if I stay at oberlin all 5 years. I may have a little leeway with ap credits, but not enough to take a semester abroad.</p>
<p>It is difficult for connies, be they double degree students or not, to do a semester abroad while at Oberlin. There is the Oberlin in Italy program during the summer, if you can afford the extra cost. See</p>
<p>For those in the college, see study abroad options at</p>
<p>oh I see...hmm...
I think if you're accepted at the Con., you must be an exceptional musical talent :D Don't waste it ^^ You can study abroad any time later...(right?)
But its just my thought :D Hope to see you at Oberlin this Fall ^^</p>
<p>When applying ED I was considering Barnard, Williams, Oberlin and wesleyan...williams was just too ordinary. It was like "oh this is the good college that will get you to a good graduate school and make your life great forever when you go to the gym and wear the Williams alumni shirt"
so i chose not to even apply. Out of about 15 other schools, oberlin seemed to suit me best becasue I wanted more than a college education. I found that at oberlin, i would become more than letter and number educated; id become educated in the unacademic areas i.e. culturally, politically.
P.S. not to totally be a stereotyping slut, but williams kids are all kids who wish they could have gone to ivies, but couldn't (and i found the same existed in Barnard and Wesleyan) for whatever reason. I didn't wnat ot go to a fake ivie. I wanted to go to a school that had a reputation for kids loving it... and the best i found was oberlin...
with your music thing, I would hands down reccomend oberlin; even if in the future you do go to williams, then the acceptance at the con is a pretty cool sticker you can keep on your back for the rest of your life.
but gl with your decision. Make a list of what you want out of your school and then make a pros and cons lists of both schools, see which one lines up first.</p>
<p>Double-degree students at Oberlin can and do take a semester abroad!! They can also do tutorials.</p>
<p>Actually, most students at Williams did get into Ivies (at least when I was there), and turned them down due to the LAC atmosphere.</p>
<p>'but williams kids are all kids who wish they could have gone to ivies, but couldn't'</p>
<p>Hahaha! That's a joke! (a rather bad one though)</p>
<p>You seem to be really bitter Francium18. But that's not a justification for making some baseless comments about Williams.MikeyD already pointed out that there are loads of poeple in Williams who got into Ivies (including HYP) but chose to enroll in Williams. Blatantly insulting the kids of another school (which for the record, is the no 1 LAC) won't really make your point any stronger. It will only confirm that you are suffering from some sort of an inferiority complex. </p>
<p>rhapsodynshadow:
Both Williams and Oberlin are good schools. Williams is ranked higher (no 1 vs no 23) and is more successful as a feeder school (no 5 vs not being in thetop 50) ,more selective (18% vs 36%)etc etc but I think Oberlin may be stronger in music. So if you are absolutely sure about pursuing a major in music, go for Oberlin. If not, you should go for Williams. Also, try to choose the school which will be a 'better fit' for you and more importantly, the school you love. </p>
<p>Best of luck:)</p>
<p>"oh this is the good college that will get you to a good graduate school and make your life great forever when you go to the gym and wear the Williams alumni shirt"</p>
<p>haha.. look what i've found: another joke!! yet not a good one. so this proves my first impression of oberlin when i looked at the viewbook. BOOORIIIINGGG!!! </p>
<p>yes, i will feel happy when i get into a good graduate school and i will be proud to be a Williams alumni. will Williams make my life great forver? well, there is one thing i'm sure about: it will make my life better than Oberlin would make. </p>
<p>"I didn't wnat ot go to a fake ivie"</p>
<p>hmm... i really wonder which school is the fake ivy? because i know from my friends who applied and got in there, oberlin has this inferiority complex -which as far as i observe must be an epidemic on oberlin campus- since it wants to admit students with high GPAs (by this i mean the ones with which ppl get into good schools like YHP and Williams). so which one is the fake ivy???</p>
<p>"I wanted to go to a school that had a reputation for kids loving it"</p>
<p>yeah, right. ppl who attend Williams just hate it. haha! we just want to ruin our lives by attending a school we hate. so logical!! omg!!!!</p>
<p>"not to totally be a stereotyping slut, but williams kids are all kids who wish they could have gone to ivies, but couldn't (and i found the same existed in Barnard and Wesleyan) for whatever reason. "</p>
<p>i agree with noxious on that and i would like to ask whether we should think the same for the ones who got into ivies but were rejected by Williams. and MikeyD is also right about what he posted. Haven't u heard the ode written by the student who turned down Harvard? oh but no probably she was hallucinating when she wrote that. she sure couldn't have been accepted by an ivy if she's been accepted by Williams? yeah, right. Ephs don't qualify for ivies... (i hope u feel my cynical tone here)</p>
<p>do u think i'm mad? no, i'm getting even. if u consider this as an offense just know that ur post created the same impact on me. i have a friend who has been accepted there and she seems to be more reasonable. i hope ppl there don't take it from her. i would not like to say bad things about oberlin but ooops i just feel the same as you will if u happen to read my post.</p>
<p>rhapsodynshadow, i agree with noxious and wish u best luck with ur choice. wherever u end up, i hope u will be happy and reasonable.</p>
<p>i really started to wonder why ppl feel like they should attack Williams. i really love the idioms in my culture: "If a tree gives fruits, then the others are eager to attack it." i hope u get my point, Francium.</p>
<p>kids..... play nice</p>
<p>In my opinion, if you got into the Con you should never, ever pass it up. But you do have to consider if you are up for the challenge. Double degree students are well known for being the most stressed kids.</p>
<p>why do we have to rely too heavily on rankings? :)
Just want to comment that the grad schools mentioned in the ranking of "feeder schools" are for business, law and medicine. Many Oberlin alumni go to grad schools in other fields.
Well, I think it comes down to the Con and music thing for you, rhapsody :) Inform us when youve made up yr mind, will you? :)</p>
<p>Thanks for everyone's imput, you guys are amazing! I'm going to visit Oberlin tomorrow, so we'll see how I like it. I'll definitely let you know when I figure things out. Sorry for being so incredibly indecisive...</p>