I grew up on/near college campuses and have always loved them. I loved my own college – and grad school – experiences, and I genuinely find it interesting and fun to go through this process with our high schoolers. Our older child is looking at LACs, the same kind of schools I explored, with an added bonus that I didn’t have, of being able to go to college anywhere in the country. We love traveling (sigh) and enjoyed – when it was allowed – touring campuses and learning more about what these schools have to offer. We’re not prestige-obsessed, just curious about what places are really like. It will be a completely different experience with our younger child, who wants things like D1 athletics and Greek life, about which I know nothing! I’ll need this forum to have any idea where to start looking.
For me, it may be a bit of “FOMO”-fear of missing out. I was a first generation college student and didn’t have the resources to know what to do. Luckily my older brother (who did not go to college) suggested that I should go. My Dad died the end of my Junior year in HS and my mom thought that maybe I should go to a 2 year community college if anything. I feel the trajectory of my life is much different than it would have been had I not gotten my BA. I want to give my children the information I never had and find the best fit for them…give them options that I didn’t even realize were available. I also want to find the best value. Our family will receive no needs-based aid and CC posters have been great at steering me in the right direction toward colleges that are strong in my D’s area of interest and might be able to get costs to be similar to our in state flagship. I also like the researching aspect and enjoy learning about colleges.
I didn’t join CC until admissions decisions were coming in and that’s because I had a kid who was so not obsessed that he wasn’t logging into the portals with any sense of urgency.
I confess that in spite of having degrees from 2 uber-selective schools, I found myself woefully out of touch when I went to our first college counseling presentation for parents at DS’ school junior year, so I contribute here, increasingly less, because I would like to help others learn from our experience.
As for prestige, DH observed that pretty much every school had the same price tag. While merit changed that, it did have us asking what you got at each school. Sorta like saying “Here’s your chit for an electric vehicle. Do you want the Tesla or the Volt?” Many of the more prestigious schhols, because of their endowments, offer more for the same tuition. And that made them more attractive.
It is also true in the industries DH and I worked in that the school you attended made a difference in whether you had a shot at an interview. We didn’t let this drive us – we both felt like DS could probably leverage family and friends networks adequately, but I think this resonates with the comment above about the economic fears. (DS got a job using college ties, not ours, in the end.)
And there is the "cocktail party response ". I have a friend that responded to the “oh, where did Sarah end up” with “She got into Brown but chose USC”. I think in circles where parents are very focused on education, your kid’s choice can seem like a referendum on how well you managed that, how smart your kid "really " is, etc. If you left the public system for private, you should have something to show for it. If you advocated for your kid to be in honors, well, that college outcome should show that they really were “better” than the kids in the normal track. I’m not saying I agree with this, but I think it’s a real response.
Lastly, when a kid chooses a school outside your region and especially one you may not be familiar with, the rankings can make it feel less risky. That’s less about seeking prestige.
Husband and I are both non traditional college grads. I wanted to understand the process. I rarely read chance or college specific threads. Just “latest posts“ and click on what grabs me.
Three kids in 2014, 2016, 2018 app cycles.
How CC guided me.
Finances. The financial advice turned my thinking around. We can afford full-pay private, but I shifted that thinking and capped budgets for my three to in-state or equivalent. 2 out of 3 have now graduated for CA UCs. Collectively, I expect to “ save” $360,000 (after tax).
Essays. The “show-not tell” adage was such good advice. I learned that essays should not be used as a confessional or an opportunity to restate application items in an essay. I sent my kids the resources other posters provided.
College Selection: Thanks to CC, I stopped pushing what I can see now see as MY agenda, and I let my kids take ownership of the selection process. I saw my kids at small LACs NOT Ivies more “Colleges that Change Lives”. Well . . . all three picked big state publics. I also learned to not focus on “one” and the idea if a “safety”.
Expectations: I’ve shared before that my third is not the most committed student and has a sub 3.0 college GPA at a top CA public. I’ve read parents so disgusted and loathing of their “under performing” “lazy” students. I did NOT want to be that parent. The CC posts helped me adopted the idea that this is his journey. I am no longer the grade police. It’s is on him. I can simply focus on all his amazing qualities.
Support: My older two, tragically, each had dear friends commit suicide within a year during college. I read so many helpful posts of shared experiences that helped guide me on how to help my kids. Mental health issues are rampant and there are so many CC posters who can help.
Thanks CC community!!
I disagree with the basic concept that being very focused and involved in a very important decision, researching, assisting etc. is somehow synonymous with prestige/window sticker/superficial objectives.
Making a choice that will cost at least tens and possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars without significant investment of time seems irresponsible to me. I’m involved for the same reason I spend a lot of time buying a house, car, etc.
For my older D, it resulted in an education that will suit her very well. It’s not a HYPS* because that wasn’t the right choice for her. I still proudly have a car sticker and school shirts.
Very much like @taverngirl as I like to research things and get a great understanding of the lay of the land. And I’m sure like most, I want the best opportunity / outcome for my kids. They do the work but the college process can be overwhelming so I helped them get a start on where to look, how to go about it, etc.
The challenge is trying to look at things through their lens. Very difficult but do it all the time. Tough when their decisions are quite different than what ours (spouse and I) would be, but you have to let them make decisions for their own life. We only step in and cancel those out when they are dangerous. For example, we wouldn’t let D attend any of the racial protests. Just thought it was overly dangerous in a riot setting (which was happening here) and didn’t want her unnecessarily exposed to Covid. She would have gone but she’s 18 so you get the picture. Told her to figure out another way to protest so she wrote letters to gov’t officials.
I don’t view the parents on CC as obsessed. I think for the most part we just care and are willing to do something about it.
These are some insightful posts. Thank you.
I agree that there is a lot at stake with cost of tuition, return on investment, and as one person perceptively commented, a parent is only as happy as their unhappiest child. For some, it can also be an chance to give their child an opportunity they themselves were not afforded. I get that. My spouse was accepted to a HYP college, but her parents said no and she stayed locally. We didn’t want this for our own children, so we became “focused” on the idea that our children would have more options than we did. (The word “obsessed” did attract attention to this post, but it also appears to engender a negative reaction for many CC veterans, so I’ll amend it to “focused” or “earnest”).
I do think prestige matters, and maybe it’s even more important for young adults who come from less affluent backgrounds. (Research agrees with this notion). This has been a point of contention between my friends and I. One person I know is a State U. grad who said that his large State U. has a much bigger alumni network than the prestigious LAC I mentioned my daughter was going to attend. We go back and forth about that. He’s a very successful businessman who hires top graduates in NYC. Yet when I asked him where his own daughter would go, State U or private, he said probably private. His wife thinks I’m right! The “cocktail party” talk really does matter to more people than are willing to admit it
I agree with all of this. At the same time, IME, there are a lot of posters on the site who are very concerned with prestige and ranking. Certainly not all of them, probably not the majority, but they are a pretty vocal group about it.
I have learned some useful information on CC that I use to not just help my son but other kids at our school. We are in a predominantly Latino community with lots of first generation kids whose parents do not speak English, so I use what I learn in my research for my own child to help them also.
College is not the only area where lack of knowledge could mean paying way more than you had to.
First kid, happily at an in state tech school. Second kid, wants more. I just want to find the best fit for him at a price we can afford. I dont want him in huge debt (or me).
Obsessive in general, “retired” lawyer so plenty of time, love to research, had no choice of college myself, want my kids to find their “fit” and a passion, and hope they find “success,” whatever that is to them.
Not focused only on “elite” colleges, have no stickers on the car, S in a college that was a merit pick that no one from our town has heard of, but very conflicted myself, vacillating between talking up the nearby less expensive public vs the selective smaller privates.
I think, for me, it boils down to fear. What if we send the kids to x public and if they’d gone to y private they’d be so much happier and successful?
Amazing post, @ProfSD. Your thought process around fit for your child is what my kids search revolved around. My wife and I were guiding our African-American kids to also check out things around fit that are not mentioned as much on CC. We also spent lots of time giving the standard CC advice around excelling in rigorous classes, ECs, and standardized testing through hard work and focus that many outstanding applicants possess.
Whether that makes us obsessed or not with the college admissions process is debatable, but I am comfortable with my kids results and they are very happy at their chosen institution (both chose the same private institution) while my entire household is happy with the negligible funds necessary to afford their undergraduate educations. The road that my family took to get desired admissions results and merit scholarships has become a frequent topic of conversation amongst family and friends looking to recreate our household’s “secret sauce”.
Seems like the underlying perceptions here are:
A. Increasing economic inequality that means that the middle and upper middle classes are shrinking, with more falling down than moving up, since the upper class is also shrinking even as its individual members get richer.
B. Increasing economic inequality means that economic aspects of life are seen to be more difficult for future generations who are in the lower middle or lower class.
C. Many self-defined “middle” and “upper middle” class people are in the top 5% of the income and wealth scales, so that there is much more space for their kids to fall rather than move up relative to themselves (even in the absence of A and B above). Some have very skewed ideas about cost of living, such that any income below six figures is “poor” from their point of view (e.g. http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/22882693#Comment_22882693 with reality check at http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/22883031/#Comment_22883031 ).
Since the above point to an increasing “winner take all” or “elite or bust” situation, at least as perceived by many middle and upper middle class people, it is not surprising that those who are parents obsess about their kids’ education and other opportunities, and spend money (when available) to purchase additional opportunities for their children. Note that parental money, is the biggest factor in most college-bound students’ college choices, with student achievement usually being a secondary factor within the parental money constraint.
I’m about the weirdest CC parent out there.
With D1-- I showed up after she made her choice to go one and done on her applications. I was trying to convince myself that this wasn’t a bad choice.
With D2–I followed here more closely but let her drive the process.
I think the chase for prestige is absolute BS and that parent’s need to get over their own issues about what it means if their kids go to a top 50 school.
I think think that USNWR ratings are meaningless. I believe that CTCL is gospel and that anyone that doesn’t pick one of those schools is making a choice for the absolute wrong reasons.
But this is based on my experience. I went to a CTCL school and had an experience that led me to a path that puts my household income in the top 1% of all Americans
For those interested, @ProfSD ‘s earlier post was moved from this thread and has become a featured thread. http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/2191728-parent-focused-on-experience-of-black-students-when-researching-for-d.html#latest
Like a number of parents above, I love to research. Plus, like many families, we knew affordability would be a controlling factor in our kids’ decision process. Back in the dark ages, I’d gotten into my “dream school” Ivy but had to go to my “back up” because of finances. I did not want my children to have to face that choice so educating ourselves on finances – merit vs. financial aid, who gives what and what would we get, would be an essential part of the process this time around. I learned a lot along the way about specific schools and processes (15-20 east coast and midwest LACs and D3 athletic recruiting) and am happy to share that knowledge with others going through it.
This is kind of a pet peeve of mine. I get annoyed when people say parents are obsessive, or similar. I believe the marketplace is rational.
In other words, if there were no reward for being so college-focused – people wouldn’t do it!
So, there clearly are big rewards for being so focused. That is what drives the focus/obsession/interest (beyond just a general level of educating onesself).
Do parents care about the potential dating pool for their college children, and hence the “focus” on the school their child attends? Is this part of the focus on “prestige” that some have? I’ve wondered this as well.
Exclusivity is the top motivation for parents. Competitive and successful parents want to be able to tell their competitive and successful friends and associates about the exclusive school their kids go to. It’s just human nature playing out among a certain class of people
@user4321, that’s not true at all for me and I don’t think it’s true for a lot of parents.
I wanted the school best-suited for each of my kids. One ended up at an OOS flagship (even though he’d been admitted to prestigious schools), one attended a middle-of-the-pack LAC that was PERFECT for her, and one ended up overseas. My husband and I each have master’s degrees in engineering, my dad was a professor and in the first group of Americans admitted to the Russian Academy of Engineering, and both my in-laws were respected physicians, so we fall in that “class” of people you’re talking about.