@FutureMDParent how is it “equal opportunity” as you say if one person had thousands of dollars more money spent on their education and development than the other? Two people can have the same IQ and work ethic with very different scores, grades, and ECs simply because of their backgrounds.
Equal opportunity doesn’t mean socialism where everyone gets a free ride. It means not discriminating against anyone based on the color of their skin or other non performance / non potential criteria. What we are talking about here is admissions, and my position is that modern “diversity” is inherently racist and ultimately self defeating, both at the individual level and societal level. You should compete for admissions on any tax exempt organization based on the merits of your academics, without favoritism based on any personal class factor.
@FutureMDParent None of your posts remotely reference extracurriculars, essays, or reccomendation letters. Your sole focus is geared toward numbers: standardized testing and GPA. You have no idea what stories these kids have or how they have impacted their own teachers and fellow students. You do not know what hardships they have faced or whether they began their own company at the age of 14 and spent their time working on building it instead of studying. Yet, you attribute their admission decisions to their race or ethnicity simply because their GPAs or test scores do not meet your own standards. Quite frankly, I have no idea what admissions was looking for and you don’t either. If Vanderbilt admitted every white, “well-qualified” (by your standards) student, it would make up a pretty boring class of 2020. Again, it may be time for you to move on and focus this energy on the college decisions to come instead of dwelling upon the past. If your child is not attending or seriously considering attending Vanderbilt at this point, then there is no reason to remain on this thread.
Based on other threads, Vanderbilt isn’t the only disappointment to @ACTSucks and @FutureMDParent. My non-hooked white student was accepted with near perfect test scores but honestly it is in her extras that she truly stands out. The best colleges value achievement, which includes but is not limited to academics. You have miscalculated based on your own prejudices. In your own words, it’s time to put the past in the past and move on.
I really hope that line of thinking didn’t rub off on FutureMD…I’ve talked to about 50 accepted black students. Over half were from minority schools with poor test scores where a 29 is literally groundbreaking…obviously they shouldn’t be penalized for where they grew up. Others had extremely compelling stories about their backgrounds that made them compelling applicants. I know my scholarship likely would not have been awarded if I did not have a unique subject matter for my essay. Maybe instead of blaming everything on minorities or on how hard it is to be white, try looking at the big picture. Not everyone is held to equal standards because not everyone is given equal opportunity. Good luck to your child going further.
@FutureMDParent although I’m white I feel your comments on this thread are utterly disgraceful. To think that minorities should not be given a level playing field in the college admission process is just plainly annoying. Do you think your child would have performed so well if he/she was a minority? If your child got rejected from from Vandy with a 2200+ move on and stop blaming minorities or the admission process. Admission to most top 30 schools are holistic and you shouldn’t expect your child to breeze to an acceptance simply because of good test scores. True, Vandy likes high achieving students but if they admit solely based on test scores, odds are Vandy wouldn’t still be as white as you want them to be. There are hundreds of high scoring Asian Americans with almost perfect scores who Vandy turn down and when they accept a lower scoring white, based on analysis, Vandy should also be considered racist. When Vandy turns down a white, you assume some low test scoring minority took his/her spot yet you fail to acknowledge that when a white get accepted, he/she probably took the spot of a higher test scoring Asian American. I got in RD and reading your comments, I’m even more ecstatic that your child didn’t make the cut. :))
so let me understand that some of you are saying that the middle 50%(ACT score 33-35) is comprised of only whites the upper 25% is only whites and the less than 25% admitted students is strictly minorities. I guess if sour grapes makes you feel better go for it but those statistics sound absurd. get over yourselves. what a bunch of racist yahoos.
so what other schools do you believe that you were destined for. sounds like you are going to spend your lives scape goating others
IMHO its more about academic exposures and resources than race. Well funded students with access to the best private, magnet, and top public high schools have a tremendous advantage regardless of race when compared to students from failing schools. These schools have the resources to prep kids to get into top U’s academically, EC’s, academic enriching opportunities, setting up summer internships, SAT prep, teachers and counselors who know how to “play the admissions game”, connections, etc…
I never turned in my official test scores and emailed my counselor at Vanderbilt. She told me that it was still ok to send in the scores now, and I am wondering if that is a good sign or not?
I logged in on the portal, and it just says YES: Your Enrollment Services
How fitting that @FutureMDParent hails from Alabama. Your post expounds the antique sentiments of former governor George Wallace: “Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever.” Although demands for outright racial separation are now near universally rejected due to a societal acceptance that “racism is bad m’kay”, your post represents a demand for de facto segregation that is common in contemporary American society, hidden behind the guise of the principles of abstract liberalism (we live in a free society and meritocracy! reward hard work and the objectively most able and hardest working! [conveniently, the “objectively most able” are almost always white…]) However, you advocate for a return to a world where only the wealthy and socially privileged receive full access to educational opportunities. Top institutions, such as Vanderbilt, seek to educate leaders for all communities, not just wealthy white ones. Therefore they admit based on a holistic review.
Do yourself a favor and check out a copy of “Racism Without Racists: Color-Blind Racism and the Persistence of Racial Inequality in America” by Eduardo Bonilla-Silva. It’s an excellent book that discusses in detail this oh-so-common point of view.
Also, as someone going through the MD application process, you would do well to toughen up some. Let me tell you, it doesn’t get any easier. Your posts express a distinct entitlement: a stellar ACT/GPA does not give you the right to demand or even expect a BS/MD acceptance or Cornelius Vanderbilt Scholarship. The application process is opaque, strange, and nonsensical, and it is a waste of energy to expect it to be any other way. MD application is even more this way.
I agree with bud123 in that it should be about resources/socioeconomic than race, but the current system emphasizes race more than anything.
From personal experience at Vanderbilt, some of my AA and Latino friends indeed came from the low socioeconomic background described by some posters on this thread. these are the people who really need a little boost on their college apps. But the majority of these students at Vanderbilt came from the same upper-middle class background as I did, and from what I can tell by their current grades(which is probably a horrible way to evaluate their high school performance, but the contrast is enormous), they received the same application advantage as those from low socioeconomic backgrounds. On the other hand, those from the low socioeconomic end up seizing up the opportunity of higher education and do extremely well in their classes(like I said again, not a very good way to evaluate high school performance). There are exceptions to both groups of course, and this is only from my own personal experience and among my friend and acquaintance group, so the reality could differ.
While the idea of affirmative action at colleges and how it affects URMs is extremely important, these issues deserve their own thread and it is unfortunate that this thread, entitled OFFICIAL RD 2020 THREAD, has been derailed by these complex issues. I hope that CC officials examine this thread and do whatever they can to get this thread back on track. In my opinion, the recent applicants to VU and their parents (both the accepted and rejected) deserve better and in my opinion it is not fair to VU to be made a poster child for the issue, since the issue of how to increase diversity on campuses (whether it be racial, gender or socioeconomic) is hardly unique to VU.
There is an official results thread. Is this not the discussion thread?
Does anyone have the link to the admitted students profile?
Yes Annie. I call these students pseudo-diverse. ADCOM’s pat themselves on the back for attracting a diverse class. They look different but otherwise attended similar high schools, have the same academic profile, the same EC’s, same God, same tax bracket, and are premed. Sometimes you get more diversity from students that look the same and attended high schools 10 miles apart when they have different life experiences & educational opportunities.
While I don’t agree with Future MD’s arguments I understand his/her frustration when a student makes the most of his opportunities and kicks butt in school but still can’t get in. There just aren’t enough spots for all the qualified kids. Vandy is now a reach school for everyone. All the top privates are free to “build their class”. Students and parents want to put a check in boxes that guarantees them admission but no one knows what OZ does behind the curtain or who gets to go to Kansas.
My daughter happens to be a minority 35ACT 13AP classes 6 her senior year 5s on all test thus far
She had two favorite schools since she was 8 years old Stanford and Georgetown. She was denied admittance to both. She was admitted to Vanderbilt and some other selective schools. Apparently she didn’t have a free pass. What I find fascinating that people assume that white kids didn’t score 29s or whatever didn’t gain admittance or someone who scored a perfect ACT or SAT test was rejected. So for the past few days people have focused on the fact that some minority person took their spot. Why do you feel that you are entitled to that spot Your focus on race only suggest that you felt entitled that you deserved it. About 32,000 people applied for eventually 1600 spots
Have you done the math
I definitely don’t think thst race should be asked about on applications anymore. It is too divisive. Schools could use economic factors, such as tax documentation, and counselor recommendations if they wanted to identify disadvantaged students, some of whom will be minorities and some will be white. Essays can be used to tell stories of family heritage, if the applicants wish to talk about their backgrounds. Minorities are not all disadvantaged. And, Caucasians are rapidly becoming a minority race in the USA. Is anyone paying extra attention to nice, white, middle class boys? No. Maybe we need to cry reverse discrimimation. No. We just need to stop the fovus on race in college apps and in the USA overall. My children and I are such a mix of backgrounds, as are many Americans. Why does one’s race matter so much to colleges? I believe that a diverse and talented student body can be created without asking about one’s race.
This clearly is my opinion about all colleges, not Vanderbilt specifically. I am anti-racism of any form. Although, I am in favor of helping motivated kids get an education and rise out of poverty, especially if private organizations and individual donors are funding this education, and not my taxes. I donate to all five of our family colleges each year. Hopefully some $ goes to scholarships.
@Snouty, I have to agree with you, similar situation, mixed race family, son with 36 ACT, 9 AP or higher classes, also denied at Stanford but admitted at Vandy and a few others. His white, Asian, Hispanic and black friends with high academic qualifications all have nearly identical experiences - denied to most of the top 15 schools, accepted to a few, and (fortunately) nearly all accepted into our top 5 state flagship.
Every college is going to admit who it wants to based on its own criteria and the process will remain closed. Looking objectively, the number of academically qualified students with ACT or SAT scores in the top 2% is about 50,000 and the number of freshman seats in the top 25 schools is about the same. There is a one spot in that group for everyone. The high denial rates to a particular school does not mean that they will be denied to all schools- and most area applying to 10+ colleges to increase their chance of admission to at least one.
Does anyone in engineering know what the laptop fee/laptop allowance is? It’s over $2000-- does Vanderbilt provide us with laptops? I think I remember reading that we need to bring our own though.
@imabelli, You have to bring your laptop or you should allocate your budget of $2000 for a good laptop. I believe Vandy does not provide laptop.