***Official Thread for 2020 BSMD applicants***

[PPofEngrDr]

Guess BS/MD option should be open from kindergarten, why need to study (post) up to high school.

[NoviceDad]

ALL

If you have asked a question or been lurking around, please share your stats and perspectives on the RESULTS thread

http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/multiple-degree-programs/2167174-bs-md-results-class-of-2020-p1.html

This is very helpful to all future students, just as the results threads of previous years students may have helped you.

[grtd2010]

@sguni_2016

@ata2020

Looking at your DC GPA, my question for you and your DC is to assess realistically how well DC would do at a T10 school where there is 3X more competition compared to her HS where DC could not maintain a clean 4.0 (and only 5 APs?). This is not to say your DC cannot do well there but it is important to assess DCs academic strengths, motivation and tenacity unbiasedly in order to set them up for success. If the answer is yes, then T10 is the way to go.

For certain core courses what i noticed with my other child is that most students study almost 18-24 hrs at T25 universities before exams and yet score 60% in the exams. Mind you these are valedictorians and rank holders, from many schools competing in an intense environment.

Among the choices you have presented which ones DC got admission? While it is possible, BU and HPME would be a hard environment to get that needed GPA (>3.8) IMO.

The poster’s C went to a very competitive public magnet HS in NJ which does not offer many AP courses. It explains a 3.9+ UW GPA and 5 APs only. Probably can do well at BU UG based on rigor of high school.

[NoviceDad]

RE: Age of matriculating students to medical school

The median age is 24 years - not 25.
The median age for Asians is 23 years.

https://www.aamc.org/system/files/d/1/321468-factstablea6.pdf

So, let’s not get too much carried away with age differences among BS/MD and regular students and social impact, if any, with respect to this.

[ata2020]

@grtd2010

@sguni_2016

@ata2020

Looking at your DC GPA, my question for you and your DC is to assess realistically how well DC would do at a T10 school where there is 3X more competition compared to her HS where DC could not maintain a clean 4.0 (and only 5 APs?). This is not to say your DC cannot do well there but it is important to assess DCs academic strengths, motivation and tenacity unbiasedly in order to set them up for success. If the answer is yes, then T10 is the way to go.

For certain core courses what i noticed with my other child is that most students study almost 18-24 hrs at T25 universities before exams and yet score 60% in the exams. Mind you these are valedictorians and rank holders, from many schools competing in an intense environment.

Among the choices you have presented which ones DC got admission? While it is possible, BU and HPME would be a hard environment to get that needed GPA (>3.8) IMO.

The poster’s C went to a very competitive public magnet HS in NJ which does not offer many AP courses. It explains a 3.9+ UW GPA and 5 APs only. Probably can do well at BU UG based on rigor of high school.

@grtd2010 your assessment is correct. For her HS, 3.92 UW GPA is exceptional, and she has taken the highest number of APs you can take in that HS. Perhaps should have taken APs outside of the High School setting. I tend to see 11 APs being references very commonly.

[NoviceDad]

BS/MD vs traditional

One more data point — Only in US/ Canada and some Caribbean schools - training for medical is a POST graduate affair.
In Europe and Asia, students pursue medicine after high school or 12th grade.

Also, ~55% of students matriculating via traditional route know they want to do medicine while in high school and ~77% by first 2 years of college i.e. by age 20.
So much for the argument - how could a 18 year old know he/she wants to do medicine.

[NoviceDad]

@PPofEngrDr

General observation, lately so many posters are popping up without any background/history as a parent, MD, an applicant, a consultant, a current BS/MD student, a future applicant.

Agree - too many lurkers are active now!
Hope they share their stats+perspectives on the results thread.

[grtd2010]

@ata2020

@grtd2010

@sguni_2016

@ata2020

Looking at your DC GPA, my question for you and your DC is to assess realistically how well DC would do at a T10 school where there is 3X more competition compared to her HS where DC could not maintain a clean 4.0 (and only 5 APs?). This is not to say your DC cannot do well there but it is important to assess DCs academic strengths, motivation and tenacity unbiasedly in order to set them up for success. If the answer is yes, then T10 is the way to go.

For certain core courses what i noticed with my other child is that most students study almost 18-24 hrs at T25 universities before exams and yet score 60% in the exams. Mind you these are valedictorians and rank holders, from many schools competing in an intense environment.

Among the choices you have presented which ones DC got admission? While it is possible, BU and HPME would be a hard environment to get that needed GPA (>3.8) IMO.

The poster’s C went to a very competitive public magnet HS in NJ which does not offer many AP courses. It explains a 3.9+ UW GPA and 5 APs only. Probably can do well at BU UG based on rigor of high school.

@grtd2010 your assessment is correct. For her HS, 3.92 UW GPA is exceptional, and she has taken the highest number of APs you can take in that HS. Perhaps should have taken APs outside of the High School setting. I tend to see 11 APs being references very commonly.

D attended a County Health Academy (a highly ranked public magnet school) in NJ so I know how competitive these HS can be. One third of her graduating class is attending Rutgers-NB and will probably apply via regular route MD.

[srk2017]

If you are just throwing your stats in the results thread, it’s useless. Talk more about ECs and essays and why do you think you got into or didn’t get into the BSMD programs you applied.

[Doctor145]

@grtd2010

@Doctor145

@grtd2010

@Doctor145

Penn

@SriSow

Thanks @Doctor145! Any input on Stony Brook U? Is Penn being 7 year and SBU being 8 year program for preferring Penn? Also, is there a way I can DM you?

Both programs are great bs/md programs. However, I do believe that Penn medical school is slightly higher ranked than SBU medical school. SBU has a great program, and I know that people have loved it. In that program there is a very close connection between the students in the program and the medical school. There will be plenty of research opportunities and there will be excellent advising. They also have a very easy GPA required to matriculate, which takes a lot of stress on of undergrad. Normally, I would recommend this program, but considering that there is the option of the Penn program, I would have to recommend the Penn program. Given this information, I think that Penn being 7 year program and SBU being 8 year program for is a good reason for preferring Penn. If one is confident that medicine is the career for them, in general 7 year programs are preferable, since in the long run, saving that extra year will allow for one to become a doctor earlier. It also saves a lot of money, as not only do you have to pay for one less year of schooling, but you also get one extra year of salary compared to people on the regular track. You can DM me anytime you want. I believe you can private message someone by doing the following: click on their username to get to the profile page. Once on there, click on the orange button “Message.” Another way is to click on the envelope gear (second from the left in the top right corner). That’s your inbox. When you click on it, you’ll see the “New Message” option. Add the username of the person you want to message in the “Recipients” field. I believe this is how you dm someone. I look forward to answering anymore of your questions, as I know how hard of a decsion this can be.

In a long career as MD, one year salary will have very little value when discounted at an appropriate discount rate to its Present Value (PV). It is a calculation found in a Financial Calculator if you have one. It should not even be a factor in discussion.

While that may be true, you also have the consider that one year less of schooling means one less year of tuition. If you know you want to be a doctor, a 7 year program will get you there quicker. And while in the long run, one year of salry is probably only a small percentage of your total salary, that one year can account to an extra couple of hundred thousand dollars, which is no small amount. However, I do agree that that one year salary would be a minimal aspect in consideration, but if you are interested in the medical field, there is no reason not to do a 7 year program if you have the chance. But whether it be a 7 or 8 year program, the penn program is a phenomenal option.

No, one year at SBU is essentially free tuition and nearly 20k room and board while the savings of nearly ~110k from not paying PSU OOS tuition. It is simple math. It has been done by the poster.

You are just spinning 7 yrs vs 8 yrs without paying any attention to real numbers. Please have an excel sheet and put down the numbers and do a present value analysis (PVA) if you can.

As far as PSU/SKMC vs SBU goes, Stoney brook and SKMC are nearly ranked as peers. SKMC and Temple LKSOM are ranked as peers. It is not SBU vs UPenn SOM. UPenn does not have a 7 yr bs/md program.

I was talking about penn state, not upenn. I looked back at the numbers and see your point. Penn state medical school, however, is cheaper than stony brook medical school, though I dont know if that matters much. I agree that cost wise stony brook will probably be a bit cheaper. I was previously assuming there was no scholarships. Considering penn state is a 7 year program, saving the year is well worth it, especially if you know you want to become a doctor. That is just from my own experience.

[sguni_2016]

@grtd2010

@sguni_2016

@ata2020

Looking at your DC GPA, my question for you and your DC is to assess realistically how well DC would do at a T10 school where there is 3X more competition compared to her HS where DC could not maintain a clean 4.0 (and only 5 APs?). This is not to say your DC cannot do well there but it is important to assess DCs academic strengths, motivation and tenacity unbiasedly in order to set them up for success. If the answer is yes, then T10 is the way to go.

For certain core courses what i noticed with my other child is that most students study almost 18-24 hrs at T25 universities before exams and yet score 60% in the exams. Mind you these are valedictorians and rank holders, from many schools competing in an intense environment.

Among the choices you have presented which ones DC got admission? While it is possible, BU and HPME would be a hard environment to get that needed GPA (>3.8) IMO.

The poster’s C went to a very competitive public magnet HS in NJ which does not offer many AP courses. It explains a 3.9+ UW GPA and 5 APs only. Probably can do well at BU UG based on rigor of high school.

Thanks for clarifying, its for the parents and student to know their strengths to compete. Best of luck.

[ROSSX2]

@ata2020

Based on the choices you have it would be crazy to think of a T10 transfer.

It takes an easy year to get your feet under you to understand how the school works, what classes to take and position for right EC not just to check the box but actually make a difference.

All applicants bsmd or traditional path will have same boring headliners… shadowing, club, leadership etc… what you did to change the status quo will get you the interview and offer.

Stay the course and be laser focused on building a profile. The stats are just table stakes to make first cut.

My DD will post her stats once she decides… She had competitive stats but not perfect. She applied to 15 bsmd and 3 regular schools. She got a 70% interview yield, declined 2 interviews, and got a 100 percent offer yield after interviews. All her interviews incl NJMS were a real deep dive into her ECs. They can easily sniff out if the candidate really has a passion for this or is being pushed by parent to become a doctor.

In one panel group interview, for why medicine, one candidate said "i went to country x and saw so many poor people and so much suffering and i want to help them… " well he could easily accomplish this by opening a soup kitchen… one said… " my dad is a doctor and i have been going to his practice since i was in middle school and interacting with patients… " well where do we start with this one and HIPPA laws…

The point i make is: you need stats, ECs, passion and maturity. Your essays and LORs show last 3 and interviews confirm it. Dont waste time transferring from T15 to T10. No one cares that much.

Now if you want to transfer from michigan state or ohio state to michigan, that makes sense. LOL.

[GoldenRock]

@ata2020

1. EAP programs do not allow transfer student. Only Mt. Sinai has EAP from any college (since it does not have UG school). Review from your UG admission list which offer EAP and include in your overall selection criteria.
2. Better not to plan for transfer. Distraction and readjustment and it is not needed for any career path. For any professional path, consider Topx during master or higher education.
3. Doing UG at T10 has no distinct advantage for MD admission if medicine path is firmed by student.
4. All your 3 WL choices are good, though the perception for JHU is harder but it is closer to your home base (if that is critical). Vandy dad and another parent in pre-med thread were happy and reported good things only. Rice is also a great option. Location is good for opportunities due to health district is just next door.
5. In your current firm offers, Washu, Emory and BU are stronger but need to study well and I doubt it should be a concern with your student. Though NJ schools are lower tiers, being in NJ has its own benefits if proximity is a critical factor for the student. If medicine is a clear choice, it does not matter which UG. But it is understood, things can evolve and peer pressure for not doing UG in so called Top school. Many posts indicated BU has EAP and can edge for location and opportunity.
6. Last. Don't take it too hard. Student can easily get in via regular MD cycle. But if BS/MD was a dear to heart, then wider net should be cast (only 5 and 4 are the top most BS/MD. Even for NJMS, should have applied for many feeder schools like NJIT and TCNJ). Bringing up this point not to add oil to fire but for future students / parents. It is not that you need to apply to 25 programs but at the same time if some thing is important to your unique situation then school list selection is equally important This item is much more critical during regular MD cycle.

[Doctor145]

@SriSow
I would also very much consider VCU program. It is a great program and having the undergrad in Richmond Virginia will give you a very fulfilling undergrad experience as well as a plethora of research and internship oppurtunities. I honestly dont think you can go wrong with choosing VCU or Penn state program, though I am a big fan of 7 year programs. I would say pick from one of those and and then see about the stony brook waitlist.

[SriSow]

@rk2017

@Doctor145, @SriSow

FYI - For DM (or PM) to be enabled for the user (following the instructions you provided), the user must have crossed 15 posts on CC. Otherwise they won’t see the option when clicking on someone’s profile. So suggest @SriSow to make up some funny posts here (like those of some senior members here, even without their intent)

Thanks @rk2017

[SriSow]

@Doctor145 Can you please expand on UConn SPiM students having bad experiences?

[GoldenRock]

Suggest for folks weighing in for UConn:

If UConn is the only choice, go for it. If have choices, search all previous years threads (both discussion and results) for UConn or SIPM and review and also reach out to any current students.

If my memory serves well, there was some student who also felt some disappointment. I may be wrong also since my memory is so bad and I don’t even know at times, what I eat for today’s breakfast!

[ROSSX2]

@ata2020

Rice is a great premed option. 90percent premeds matriculate. Yes there is a committee letter so there is a weed out. The school will give you great opportunities. Super grade inflation so that helps a ton. Small classes.

[sguni_2016]

@ross

@ROSSX2

@ata2020

The point i make is: you need stats, ECs, passion and maturity. Your essays and LORs show last 3 and interviews confirm it. Dont waste time transferring from T15 to T10. No one cares that much.

Well put.

[grtd2010]

@ax2021

I have a quick question with the NJMS feeder school decisions out: I know some programs value the importance of research experience. Is there a general consensus on what NJ feeder schools emphasize?

First of all need near perfect Stats to get initial interview with feeder schools and subsequently from NJMS. Then ECs, Essays and interview for the kill.