@TheCurryBiscuit I am also an Indian student applying for BSMD in USA. Are you a US Citizen? What all colleges are you applying for? I don’t have a ton of research experience and am not taking any AP’s either as I am already in an A Level Curriculum so taking the same subjects as an AP seems sort of redundant. Let me know. Thanks.
Can someone please respond to my post earlier #572?
@mygrad2021 LACs prepare students well because their small size means students know professors better, which lead to better rec letters and also more research opportunities. The advising system is also better because each advisor is in charge of less students. There is also (slightly) less competition than larger schools.
LACs (especially top schools) are really strong at preparing students even if they don’t end up in medicine. The same cannot be said for some undergraduate schools that offer BS/MD…
Thank you @ramen2020!
Questions(#570) I have a question regarding selecting colleges for regular undergrad programs. If you want to become a physician at any cost, is it a good idea to select a small college like St. OLAF, Swarthmore, Ponoma ( I don’t know all the names still:) ) kind of liberal arts college with less students to faculty ratio or go to a regular state college or a top college like UCLA, NW, UNC etc. Can someone share their viewpoint on how to select an undergrad college but still become a physician?
(#572) Do these colleges prepare you well for MCAT exam and sciences? Do the students gain enough experience to be equally competitive with science and research focused?
A View Point:
This is a heavy question and there won’t be a black and white answer. You will receive different perspectives, so hopefully it doesn’t confuse you more.
If the plan is to apply traditional route for Medical School, It is GENERALLY better to enroll for UG with institution where they also have the medical school - either on the same campus (i.e. Case Western), nearby campus location (Northwestern, Boston) or Affiliation with Med School.
- Regardless of the UG major declared, for med school admission, pre-requisite coursework required, generally known as “pre-med track”
- For Medical School admission, addition to the “Analytical-Academic profile” like MCAT and GPA, “Demonstrated” experience and exposure in medical/health care field are pivotal for “Personal & intellectual vitality”. In addition to leadership, community service, doctor shadowing; - Research & Publication preferably with med school lab is one of the key parameters help build the case for medical school admission.
Being with one of this consolidated list of colleges, better preparation support and RESOURCES for medical school admission over Liberal arts school will be received.
Here’s the list (~25) to consider, which includes the full spectrum of colleges, including private and public, small and big, metro and college town, merit and need based scholarship and Drive (hopefully) and fly school.
Harvard, Johns Hopkins, Uni of Pennsylvania, Northwestern, Cornell, Columbia, Duke, UNC at Chapel Hill, Uni of Washington, Georgetown, Stanford, George Washington, Boston, Emory, Tufts, Yale, UCLA, Brown, Uni of Virginia, Rice, WashU, Case Western, Uni of Minnesota, Uni of Wisconsin—Madison.
There are few schools in this list also offers Dual degree BS/MD program.
(#572) Question - The other confusion is if the student for any reason changes the mind and no longer want to go for medicine, will that be a disadvantage graduating from these colleges?
As mentioned above, students are allowed to major in any categories with condition to meet the “pre-med” course work requirements. If there is any chance, even less than 10% for student to not pursue med school after UG, one of the better regarded major would be Degree in Economics.
@mygrad2021
Re: post 572
Liberals Arts Colleges - they may not be the best places for plan B (unless one wants to pursue LAW or public policy). So, if a student were to change his/her mind, you need to think through what is plan B for such cases.
Let’s take a hypothetical case of VASSAR College - excellent liberal arts school with a small cohorts pursuing traditional pre-med program. If you change your mind from doing medicine, would you be comfortable with any of the other 50+ majors offered ?
If not medicine, then what? This question must be discussed and debated within the family.
I would chose a undergrad college which aligns with the student’s interest and where the student feels at home and where you can realize your plan B option (if the need arises).
Students who are on dependent status on a parent’s H-1B or L-1 are considered FOREIGN students.
If you are a non-US citizen or non-GreenCard holder candidate, practically all BS/MD programs are out of reach as these are restricted for US citizens/Green-Card holders.
From tuition fee perspective, non-citizen students of green card holder (permanent resident) parents pay international tuition fees, even if that student is currently studying in US.
Thank you @NoviceDad and @Threebrook! Is there any disadvantage for the student to choose an undergraduate school where there is also a bs/md program but the student didn’t get into it? Do the bs/md students are given more preference for research, clinical and volunteering opportunities than regular premed students in such schools? Is 1st preference is given to bs/md students for registering for any classes etc?
i know that for some places, BS/MD students are given priority for class registration (UConn i think). Then there are programs like Brown that have research and study-abroad funds set aside for PLME only.
This all depends on the school though
Does the LOR has to be from 12th grade teachers? does it matter if its from my 10th grade teacher?
Thank you @ramen2020! My daughter is a junior and she just created a commonapp but it doesn’t really let you see anything unless you specify which term you’re applying to. What’s the point in creating the account? Anyone has any experience with creating the account in the junior year?
Various factors go into decision making as to which school to choose for traditional route. I will list a few, partly echoing what others may have mentioned.
- Yes small liberal arts institutions tend to give more attention to guidance for their students, but most of them are private and expensive. Amherst college for example meets 100% financial need for the students (need based) but don't hand out any merit awards. So people may end up spending 200-300 k for undergrad in such places. Something you need to factor in if medicine is your final destination, since med school is also going to be expensive all over again.
- You need to sometimes choose between prestige and practicality. Some schools are ultra competitive and it is very difficult to get the kind of grades that are usually expected of med school applicants. They come in all shades, public, private and Ivies. Cornell, Princeton, UVA, UCLA, UCB, WashU .... For people planning to go to medicine eventually, usually the state schools offer the initial savings, but if the school happens to be one of the aforementioned, you need to think twice.
- Given a choice between a school with affiliated med school and the one without, better go with the former. However there are some schools like Northeastern which are supposedly excellent in research in spite of not having med school of their own. You may want to refer to NIH link I shared a while ago, to take a look at funding for a given school as a sample.
- Don't think the traditional pre med students are at any disadvantage compared to their peers in BS/MD programs in getting into research opportunities. They need to show the initiative by following the postings and reaching out to faculty etc. In fact in some accelerated BS/MD programs, the students don't get much time to involve in research, so the traditional program students even have a benefit in that regard.
- Think about what other area interests you, if you were not to go with medicine. Find out how impressive the colleges you will be considering have programs in that area(s). Look up the faculty, their research, laurels, publications, funding, proximity to and partnership with industry etc. to get an impression. Try to visit as many colleges as possible and get first hand information talking to the admissions officers, students on campus and visiting the schools and departments there.
Hello, My son is applying for Baylor2 medical track program for Fall 2010 and planning to attend January event if gets shortlisted. Can some one please reply if they had experience in attending this event ? How many students will attend and what they would be doing there apart from the tour? What is academic break out session they mentioned on event page? Will there be one on one Interview or will there be a CASPER style interview? I am curious to know about the event and on how they will select candidates for BCM Interview.
Thanks in-advance!
Thank you @NoviceDad and @rk2017 ! I understand the pros and cons better now. I didn’t know that Amherst and all won’t give any merit based scholarships.
These are guidelines from Stanford’s website regarding LORs from teachers, can’t imagine why it would be any different elsewhere:
We recommend requesting letters from grade 11 or 12 teachers in English, math, science, foreign language, or history/social studies. You may request a letter from a grade 10 teacher if the coursework was advanced (e.g., Honors, AP, IB). Letters from classroom teachers are strongly preferred.
Yes most of these colleges are following Ivies kind of policies. The reasoning given is that all our students are highly meritorious and we can’t differentiate among them , so the only thing we can consider giving is need based.
That’s why I keep telling to refer to the common data sets (CDS, think section H2) to figure out which ones give some merit aid, and how much and to how many if any vs those that absolutely don’t.
Thanks @rk2017! I will look into the data sets of each college that she selected so far in the list.
@Threebrook re your post #584, what are the other schools you would recommend?
Is there a place to look at statistics how many students who wanted to get into a med school got acceptances vs. other schools? Do most students stay in the same medical school where they did their undergrad?
THANK YOU!
@TheCurryBiscuit
Question - I am also applying to numerous BSMD dual degree programs. I have a couple of questions: First, how important is research when it comes to these programs?
In BSMD admission process, Research is considered as one of the differentiator. Research is assessed as part of the “Personal and Intellectual” student profile of the application process. If student profile meets all other criteria to make “Compelling” applicant, generally Group 2 (State Schools) and Group 3 (likes of Temple) accepts the student without any hands on lab research experience. In the past, there were cases where Group 1 (likes of HPME) have accepted student with NO research experience, but in recent years, it is few and far between.
Research Categories for Dual degree BSMD application process are:
- Basic research done at high school or home – generally done for Science fair project
- Paid University research program - 4-6 weeks per summer, One summer
- Research done at University or Community college – one to three summers, 8 weeks per summer
- Research at NIH – one to three years, paid internship, 9 weeks per summer
- Research at Medical school – one to three summers, 10 weeks/summer
- Research at Med school with BSMD program and publish paper/s