@@2beDoc My 2 cents, go with UIC with the flexibility to apply out. Being close to home has advantages.
No, USMLE alone wonât determine residencies. Just like standardized scores alone wonât determine getting into BS/MD programs (As an example, to quote some one who attended BU interview, they had 1000+ applicants with near perfect scores and gpa s). A recent graduate from Rutgers Robertwood Johnson (son of former co-worker) had plenty of other credentials, a masterâs degree, couple of research publications in prestigious journals, winner of awards etc, on top of the usual grind and he got into UPenn residency.
We have people like @dblazer who have gone through the process recently and have first hand experience and insights. It does help to listen to them with humility irrespective of oneâs own preconceived notions.
Not sure whether to enroll in Union/Albany or Cornell (Arts and Sciences).
Any tips please?
@rk2017. I agree with you that USMLE scores are not the only criteria however they are the most important one. Every residency place has a published or unpublished minimum USMLE cutoff. If you do not make the cut you are automatically rejected by the admin staff regardless of where you graduated from or what research you have done. After you meet the minimum then everything else comes into play to get an interview. However once invited for interview, the interview performance becomes the most important factor. The subjective nature of the interview process is why it is so hard to understand why someone landed the residency and the other did not. If we really want to develop a matrix I think we need to correlate different factors that land you the interview not actual residency. I am pretty sure the USMLE scores are the primary factor in landing an interview. References are the second most important factor. A strong reference from a nationally or internationally known expert in your field of study of course trumps a reference from an average professor. Just my two cents.
Fair enough, but then, wonât most of the med students meet the cutoffs for the interviews with relative ease? Like for example, meeting a published cutoff of say 1450-1500 or 32 on SAT/ACT to be considered for an interview at some of these BS/MD programs?
Then what? What distinguishes a great candidate from an average one, both with great USMLE scores? Something to think about.
@dolphin37 - Cornell is known for grade deflation so may not be a good choice for premed.
Hi. I am new to this thread. I have the following offers:
1: Premed Yale
2: Premed Brown
3: UIC GPPA(campus not assigned yet)
I am interested in medical and cost is not a factor. If I go the premed route my concern is that which out of Yale and Brown has the better opportunities for under grad student for research.
Any advice/comments on which is the better option of the three.
I partly agree with @dblazer 's (I think) earlier comments regarding NW. The academic environment one is positioned in, the research reputation, facilities, faculty and peers one is surrounded by do contribute to oneâs progress. But it is mostly up to oneself how he/she can avail those opportunities in the best possible way and shine.
I have read here in multiple posts that Certain top undergradâs are not very conducive to a pre-med environment. Out of Yale and Brown which is a better choice for pre med? Both are out of state and will be same cost wise. The choice for me will be solely based on their premed benefits. Any advice.Thank you.
Thanks @grtd2010. Seems to be the consensus from everyone who chimed in.
Does anyone know when RPI/Union will come out today?
@bsmd2022 âŠbetween Yale and Brown, I will pick Yale.
@bsmd2022. I will also pick Yale over Brown. But if you are sure about going to medical school I will pick UIC GPPA over both of them.
@BSMDDAD - thatâs really interesting input you gave re: UIC GPPA. Since this is very relevant to some of my posts, can you please elaborate a bit as to the key factors that would be in favor of UIC GPPA over Yale and Brown (PLME?)? thanks.
Albany med decisions are delayed until Wednesday (hopefully not later)- spoke to admissions rep today.
Thank You @sblaurel
This is perhaps beyond the scope of the discussion in this thread, but I would like to clarify the most important factors for residency given some of the confusion surrounding this. These are the most important factors independent of medical school (in relative order of importance):
-Step scores: Yes these are important, but I would say itâs very comparable to the way SATs are viewed by colleges. You need to score in a certain range to be competitive for a particular specialty/program, but after meeting certain thresholds, other factors (as I will describe below) are considered at the top most programs. So, much like with SAT, good scores are necessary but not sufficient to get invites from the very best programs. Step 1 has usually been the more important step but that has been changing recently.
-Clinical performance/class rank (included in Deanâs letter): This is almost as important as step scores in that doing poorly can neutralize great step scores while doing well can compensate to some degree. Each school has various different ways of calculating these grades; there is a subjective component where people you work with (attendings, residents) evaluate you and there is also an objective component with an exam at the end of each core rotation. Usually a predetermined distribution of students will be sorted into a top bracket (Honors), second bracket (High Pass), and third bracket (Pass) for each rotation based on their performance. In order to be competitive for top programs in a desired specialty, it is important that one is able to get âHonorsâ in that rotation if it is a core rotation.
At many schools, the pre-clinical years are true Pass/Fail, in that they are not at all used for ranking purposes. At others however, pre-clinical grades are still used in the ranking formula.
-AOA Status: AOA (Alpha Omega Alpha) is an honors society that spans across US MD schools for which the top 25% of each medical school class is eligible to apply. Each school has a different selection process (at some there is a panel that reads applications, at others there is a voting process, etc.). Being selected for this honors society instantly alerts any residency program director who reads an application that the student is one of the top candidates from their medical school and it is looked upon very favorably by residency programs, especially for students coming from lower tier schools.
-Research/Extracurriculars: These are important to help oneâs chances at AOA and more importantly residency, but they will not compensate for poor scores or clinical performance. There are some specialties that pretty much require research (derm, ophtho, ortho, ent, neurosurgery, rad onc) but even otherwise itâs good to have, especially for top programs. While research is necessary for some specialties, for others like internal medicine, having extensive extracurricular involvement can be just as good.
-Letters of Recommendation: These are important but probably only truly help if the letters are absolutely stellar or are written by faculty known to the program directors. For the most part, people wonât write bad letters, so itâs not easy to differentiate students based on the letters alone.
-Interviews: This varies heavily by specialty, with its weight increasing for smaller specialties. For large specialties like internal medicine, the interview has relatively little weight. A poor interview can get one removed from the rank list, but for the most part itâs difficult for programs to differentiate students based on the interviews alone.
-Personal Statement: Might bring up interesting points for the interview but thatâs about it - would say very little weight.
How does going to a top medical school help? First, the access to good mentors, research, and big-name letter writers, etc. is greater at these schools. But more importantly - there are more than enough students with great step scores and good clinical performance so school reputation becomes another factor for residency programs to consider. Going to a top school gives one more âbreathing roomâ with regards to their application. i.e. someone from a low tier school would have to have stellar step scores, top grades/ranking, AOA, and extensive research to have a shot at a big-name residency whereas someone from a top medical school could have closer to average step scores or more average clinical grades and have a similar shot.
@dblazer Great information.
what is the step 1 score that would be competitive these days for top residencies? Also I wasnât aware of the brackets for pass/fail for clinical rotation years (my DC is still a few years away from that so we havenât experienced it yet)âŠis the student usually made aware of what bracket they are in as they complete each rotation?
@Empire007 240s (~70th percentile) is enough to be considered but 250+ (~85th percentile+) is a strong score. Step 2 can make up for step 1 performance to some degree. As far as clinical grades, students should be made aware of how the rotation is graded before starting the rotation (i.e. if there is a certain exam cutoff score needed to honor the rotation), but the evaluations and exam scores are required before a final grade (Honors, High Pass, or Pass) is given.
@dblazer If you donât mind, where and which specialty are you doing your residency?