I believe MCAT score for AMC is not 36/518. Once again, we need to use MSAR (the Medical School Admissions Requirements) . You can buy an access to MSAR website for a nominal fee.
https://students-residents.aamc.org/applying-medical-school/faq/buying-and-using-medical-school-admission-requirem/
Good luck!
WashJeff/Temple is actually guaranteed contingent upon a GPA and MCAT requirement. No interview after 4 years.
And from what I’ve heard the quality of education at WashJeff is just as any other school such as Pitt, Penn State, etc. Small schools tend to be better from a premed perspective.
MSAR median data for some discussed BS/MD medical colleges
GPA MCAT College
3.91 520 NU
3.92 518 Baylor
3.82 518 CWRU
3.84 517 Cincin
3.78 516 Hofstra
3.79 515 Brown
3.75 515 Rochester
3.74 514 Sidney
3.76 511 Drexel
3.73 512 UIC
3.81 509 OU
3.74 514 NJMS
3.77 513 Conn
3.82 514 Stony
3.68 511 AMC
If requested docs are not provided, ranking agency may not include. Few good known schools are not listed for many years, nothing unusual. AMC, Tulane. Galveston used to be but finally in this year rank it is listed.
Is there anyone in the Hofstra 4+4: BA-BS/MD Program or Stony Brook Scholars for Medicine Program who can offer insight toward choosing between these two programs? Not too concerned about financial cost, but rather more about the medical school.
Stony Brook has abundant research opportunities, well-established medical school with LEARN curriculum (seminar-style lectures), good match list (I want to stay in NY for residency), recently signed agreement to become affiliated with Mount Sinai, better undergraduate experience, offers full-ride for tuition plus a few other scholarships ($20K less per year in undergrad compared to Hofstra).
Hofstra is connected to a larger hospital system (Northwell Health) so offers more opportunities to rotate in those hospitals during medical school and network with Northwell Health doctors, has an innovative curriculum (PEARLS, EMT training, early clinical exposure in the 1st year), residencies match back to Northwell Health hospitals, poor undergrad experience, more costly ($20K more per year in undergrad).
Any insight is greatly appreciated!
Thank you @upstream. I don’t need to look up any info from the MSAR link you provided, but it may be helpful for others here.
As I mentioned, I just reproduced the info posted by someone earlier on this forum and made it clear that it may not be accurate or outdated. Also such stats are just one measure of the strength of a program among many others. Nevertheless AMC is considered a solid program, please let us know if you or anyone here thinks it is not the case.
As I said earlier, if I were to lookup any sites, I would go with internationally well known ones which provide a comprehensive view of a school’s strength from various perspectives like quality of education, research, facilities, impact of it’s research and innovation, international collaborations, industry partnerships etc, instead of relying on half baked information and controversial methodologies.
@futurebsmd2017
I stand corrected on the first point of guaranteed seat. You are correct.
On the second point, I will agree to disagree with you. WashJeff undergrad is not in the same league as UPitt, PennState and Temple.
@topo10
Based on my doctor friends, Stonybrook is a better med school than Hofstra.
Residency matches are also better at Stonybrook - better specialties than Hofstra. This year students at Stonybrook matched in competitive residencies at Yale, Brown and other top medical schools.
The undergrad school at Stonybrook is definitely much better than Hofstra.
Hofstra has an innovative curriculum but is a newer program.
My daughter did not like Hofstra undergrad when she visited Hofstra.
My daughter has an acceptance at Stonybrook but likes HPME and PennJeff more. She has a positive view on Stonybrook.
WashJeff undergrad is not in the same league as UPitt, PennState and Temple.
[/QUOTE]
Kind of confused by your statement above. Are you suggesting the latter 3 are in the same league? If so, I doubt it.
@rk2017
My point is that WashJeff does not compare with any of these PA universities for undergrad.
Re: WashJeff Regular Undergrad
“ Our middle 50% range is typically 1060-1260 on the SAT Math and Evidence Based Reading and Writing sections and an ACT composite score of 24-30.”
For BA/MD, min SAT is 1350.
Compare that with other PA universities.
SAT/ACT ranges can be very misleading. Generally smaller schools with smaller numbers of annual enrollments and focused curriculum and less number of majors offered, tend to have higher ranges of these scores. Bigger schools like Penn State offering tons of majors and admitting student body from a wide spectrum of interests and backgrounds tend to have lower score ranges. Kind of a diluting effect, if you will.
But we all know what a fine institution Penn State (University Park) is, a leader in many academic areas of endeavor with world wide reputation. I don’t think any of the other schools you mentioned here come any where close to it, though they may have the same ball park score ranges.
@rk2017
PennState is fine institution and so is UPitt.
WashJeff may as well be a fine institution but it is not comparable with PennState or UPitt.
Note - WashJeff is a small institution and has much lower range of scores for admitted students.
What is your view on West Virginia University? Or California University of PA (CalU)?
Students considering WashJeff for regular undergrad also look at these institutions- WVU and CalU - not PennState.
Anyway, I will stop here and would agree to disagree with you.
My views on WashJeff are unlikely to change.
I am considering CWRU for premed. Everyone says that it is a tough school to get good grades. Any advice?
UW Seattle is my alternate option, and I am also considering UCSD. thank you!
It seems to me that your consideration of what makes a good institution is based solely on academic rankings, which may be misleading. For example, many of the UC schools in California are considered very high ranking schools; however, I’ve seen several cases of students struggling to do well there. Students can go to state schools and can still get a high quality education. It is the stigma in our society that leads us to believe that only the so called high ranked colleges are the best fit for high school students.
@dreamstoreality
Where did I compare ranking of WashJeff with other universities? And where did I ever say that only high ranked colleges are best fit for high school? Where did I ever say you cannot get quality education at a state school?
It looks like you are attributing to me something I have not said.
I shared WashJeff University admitted students stats. My reading of their mid 50% students is that they have scores slightly higher than the SAT mean. My reading of a SAT score of 1060 is that is it a mean score - half of high schoolers score more than that.
You are free to disagree with my reading.
I do firmly believe Penn State is a fine institution.
Also SKMC is very fine medical school irrespective of its US News or other rankings. So is Stonybrook. And so is UPitt.
I have no issues with you or anyone sending your kids to WashJeff. Many hard working kids are at that university. It’s your choice.
The only point I am making is that WashJeff is not in the same league as PennState or UPitt or Temple.
I am sharing my views.
You are totally entitled to ignore it.
The point I’m trying to make is that several bs/md programs are linked with colleges that may have sat means slightly above the 50th percentile (i.e. umkc, hofstra, drexel), so looking at SATs is not the best indicator of the ‘quality’ of the undergraduate institution.
@NewJerseyFan - Getting GPA required med schools is not easy at UCSD either.
I would look at undergraduate research opportunities and difficulty of getting good GPA or required GPA for BS/MD programs and residency match lists for MD rather than looking at SAT scores or rankings.
True, looking at SAT scores is not a good indicator for many things. But we can deduce something, that is, if the kids chosen for these very competitive programs attend classes with others in a given school where it may be easy to get in for general admission, it should not be a big deal for these kids to top their classes with ease. The grading will also be relatively easy to suit the average academic levels at these schools. 4 years of such diluting effect will induce a sense of complacency, not being challenged and stretched to limits.That can set a bad foundation for the rest of the program, when they will be joined by very hard working and smart kids from traditional route, residency matches and beyond.
So we need to look deeper if possible, like do the schools have separate classes for kids from these selective programs and expose them to sufficient rigor? How is the faculty? What are the grading policies? One of the courses that D takes is only for the students selected for the program. The class size is 24 or so and taught by a Stanford Ph.D. who keeps going away for a week or so to CERN every now and then in a given semester. Kids seem to struggle in his class though they are all very brilliant and got selected in an elite program. The other classes are not exclusive and they take it with other kids but challenging nevertheless since the school has a reputation for tough grading. One course is taught by a Prof who attended Stanford as undergrad and got Ph.D. from Columbia and post doc at Harvard. Another taught by some one who got undergrad from Harvard and Ph.D. from UCLA. I don’t know much about one another Prof of some other subject.