<p>NYC Public High Schools are terrible, although the specialized and some other public schools are great. The average SAT score for public schools in NYC is 1327 (2011) and its around 1120 in my neighborhood on NYC.</p>
<p>MasterYi, the mean scores on the SAT for 2011 were 497 critical reading, 514 math, and 489 reading nationwide.</p>
<p>My guess is that the average student in a NYC public school is poorer than the average student nationwide. Plus people whose first language is not English tend to have lower SAT scores. So I don’t think 1327 is so terrible. </p>
<p>I certainly agree that there are many terrible high schools in NYC. But I also agree that there are a bunch of really excellent public high schools.</p>
<p>NY suburb, our local CC use Accuplacer, to test out of remediation one needs to get above 550 in the 3 sections on the SAT and 24 on ACT. I have seen lower stats for acceptances in 4 year universities.</p>
<p>The stats I saw at this CC, out of 5000 freshman 2011, 1500 had to enroll in remediation courses.</p>
<p>So to paint this CC with greater than 1/5 in remediation, the SAT score is 1650 and below. A 1650 is above the national average SAT score as is the 24 ACT.</p>
<p>We live in upstate NY, but still - my brother went to a CC and had to take 2 remedial courses in reading which were non credit (and put him a little behind in his degree). However, his 3rd semester he had to take 5 english courses all at once. He ended up with 4 a’s and a B. He was then admitted to the honor society for his achievements. I don’t think tests really predict success. It’s unfortunate that our society puts so much emphasis on them.</p>
<p>90% of headlines are made up.</p>
<p>Really? They couldn’t even say “78%” instead of “80%”? It’s practically the same amount of space!</p>
<p>Thank God I didn’t go to school in NYC!</p>
<p>Catria, the headline was less than fair.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>These “80%” were not illiterate, but they needed remedial work to function at college level.</p></li>
<li><p>This was based on students starting out in community college. In NYC, every student can commute to a 4 year public college (some of which are very highly regarded, including Baruch, a well respected business schools, and a joint BS/MD program at City College), which costs about the same as a community college (about 7K). So you do not get many kids going to CC to save money, when they can go to a good, or even an average 4 year school, live at home, for the same money. These 4 year schools have honors programs, with more benefits.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>As many of you have stated before, this headline is completely misleading.</p>
<p>I believe a reason for all these under-qualified students in NYC’s CCs is due to the filtering and partitioning of students by NYC. In NYC, you can clearly see the division of high schools into genius schools (ex. Hunter), specialized high schools (which I attend), zoned schools in decent neighborhoods, zoned schools in bad neighborhoods, and a few prison schools. Basically, a student that grew up in a bad environment will almost definitely end up learning from a bad environment where all their peers are also from bad environments which diminishes the quality of their education.
And the filtering continues with the CUNY system with CUNY honors, CUNY 4-year colleges and CCs. Almost all CC students that come directly from hs are unmotivated ppl that simply never sat in an educational environment their whole life and never met hard working ppl. CC’s curriculum for high school grads is in reality, as easy as high school should be, if not easier. But because so many students breezed through hs without learning anything, they will struggle in CC. And that’s much better than the alternative which is struggle in life.
NYC, just like any other cities, sends tons of students to top colleges and Ivy Leagues. We do not have a horrible education system. It is just that the level of education in NYC is unevenly distributed (and that is arguably beneficial in some ways and harmful in others).</p>
<p>Even if they are at an 8thgd readng level when they graduate, I bet they are smarter than this guy.
[Roosevelt</a> softball coach asked team to find him ‘cute girls’ | KING5.com Seattle](<a href=“http://www.king5.com/news/Roosevelt-coach-on-unpaid-leave-for-inappropriate-scavanger-hunt-196410321.html]Roosevelt”>http://www.king5.com/news/Roosevelt-coach-on-unpaid-leave-for-inappropriate-scavanger-hunt-196410321.html)</p>
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<p>I wouldn’t say almost all CC students coming directly from HS are unmotivated people. Instead, my impression from having friends taught in several CCs and my own stint subbing a friend’s history class(Western Civ lecture on the Roman Empire) is that only a tiny minority are truly unmotivated*. </p>
<p>Instead, most of the fresh from HS students are trying very hard, but have to play catch-up after spending K-12 in chaotic schools dominated by a critical mass of the violently disruptive students and uninspiring/burnt-out teachers/admins mainly focused on putting out fires caused by “problem students” and by political bureaucratic pressures from above. In such a chaotic environment, even the students who wanted to learn and dedicated teachers who wanted to teach would be hard pressed to collaborate to create an environment conducive to learning. </p>
<p>My old neighborhood’s zoned high school** was heavily crime ridden as I saw from stitches older neighborhood kids attending had who pleaded with me and other kids to do whatever we could to attend better/safer high schools. That was one reason why I can now say I speak as someone who also attended one of the Specialized High Schools. </p>
<ul>
<li>The tiny handful of students who fell asleep or opted to read the newspaper while I lectured in 2 class sessions of 50-70 mostly attentive and engaged students.<br></li>
</ul>
<p>** It ended up being shut down a year or so ago due to extremely abysmal student academic performance and graduation rates of around 34%.</p>
<p>I completely agree, my wealthier friends live near excellent zoned middle schools and my poorer friends live near terrible zoned middle schools. The only way out of it is to be accepted to a citywide magnet school (Which is what I did) or private school.</p>
<p>i think that the problem comes in when we separate certain regions and finger-point rather than seeing this as a systemic, structural, national issue. as donald mentions, “the level of education in NYC is unevenly distributed”. yes, this is true, and it’s true in EVERY state in this country. rather than breathing a sigh of relief that this problem (however overstated) isn’t in your community, we all need to do what we can to stand up for education reform nationally. because the nyc ,or california, or mississippi, (or wherever) ‘problem’ will (and already has) become everybody’s problem.</p>
<p>I taught at UChicago and at CC of Philadelphia. My UChicago students were not more highly motivated. They were much better prepared, had rarely if ever gone hungry as kids, and, on the whole, had much more circumscribed life experiences. My CC students (all high school grads) were, in the main, very badly prepared, had faced hunger or worse, not uncommonly had been homeless or near homeless or lived in very crowded situations, often had a couple of dead friends or relatives from violence, and were often as bright as my Chicago students (and every year some transferred into Ivies, usually Penn.) And they are often in school under very difficult circumstances.</p>
<p>In the game of Simon Says, which is life (and school, reformed or not), they had often been among the first ones “out”.</p>
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<p>This is an unfair generalization that I’m sure could be refuted.</p>
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Do they have a different curriculum for students that don’t come directly from hs?</p>
<p>sorry for the generalization aquamarinesea (I did say “almost” though). Either way, CC students come from chaotic, violent, and harsh environments which usually demotivates students and take away their potential to learn.</p>
<p>and sylvan, students that don’t come directly from hs would be referring to adult students who are immigrants.</p>
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<p>That is completely, 100% false. Absolutely false. MOST students who are in a CC directly after hs are there because they can’t afford to go to a 4 year right away. </p>
<p>If they were unmotivated they wouldn’t even bother with the CC (generally).</p>
<p>Aren’t there students from good four-year universities that go to Community College when they flameout for various reasons? That’s a standard recommendation on this board when a student doesn’t do well for the first semester or first year.</p>
<p>Here is a less sensational article on the same subject:
<a href=“CUNY Adjusts Amid Tide of Remedial Students - The New York Times”>CUNY Adjusts Amid Tide of Remedial Students - The New York Times;
<p>And it’s not just in NYC.</p>
<p>“The knowledge gap at community colleges is increasingly being recognized as a national problem. About 65 percent of all community college students nationwide need some form of remedial education, with students shortcomings in math outnumbering those in reading by 2 to 1, said Thomas R. Bailey, director of the Community College Research Center at Teachers College at Columbia University.”</p>