Oh gosh, what a decision!!!

Parents Forum
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<p>I am your classic "I'm SOOOO proud of my daughter" parent. She is an excellent student (straight As her entire life, very high SAT scores and AP scores) as well as being the best daughter anyone could have ever ask for. Not a moment's worry has she given us her entire life. Well rounded, very deserving. Socially conscience, politically interested, very bright future. </p>

<p>That being said, she has been accepted to her top choices of colleges. (she chose NOT to even apply to DUKE or Harvard), and they are UNC-Chapel Hill in NC (our home state) and a very good private college in our area, Campbell University.</p>

<p>She has visited both, and UNC-Chapel Hill is wonderful and a top college nationwide, (as I'm sure you know) and by gosh I fell in love with it on our visit, but her heart is with Campbell. She loves it because it is smaller and closer to home and she can have her car there. They are also very good academically but not as well known as UNC-Chapel Hill. UNC-Chapel Hill's campus is very charming and there is just a wealth of possibilities there, but so is Campbell.</p>

<p>If the choice was simply what she likes better, it would be easy to decide, we'd just send her to Campbell. But there's more to it than that. She was a Moorehead-Cain nominee for UNC-Chapel Hill (a 15K a year school) which would have provided a full scholarship, but she, along with all the other nominees in our area, did not get it. There are chances for more scholarships there though but we won't know til spring. With Campbell (a 25K a year school), she qualifies (but not for sure if getting yet) the presidential scholarship which will award 12K a year.</p>

<p>But what it all boils down to is that if we send her to her first choice, we will more than likely fork out HUGE bucks for the private school and way less for the public, possibly even better school of UNC-Chapel Hill.</p>

<p>She deserves to go to the very best, to the one she wants to go to more than anything, but though we do make a good living, we don't have that kind of money saved up and it would be a great financial challenge for the next several years. She is wanting to go further than the 4 years of college as she wants to become a doctor.</p>

<p>Just how in the heck do you DECIDE what to do when something is so important? If she goes to a college that is not her first choice, I'm scared she will not be happy.</p>

<p>How do you make it all out?</p>

2

<p>We are in a similar situation already and expect more complicating options this spring. H and I are resigned to pay for whatever decision our D makes. She's worked too darn hard to hold her back from attending the school that she likes best. We will let her know the consequences of attending the more expensive option - less help from us for post-graduate education and first home-buying. But the decision will be hers and we will fully support her in that direction.</p>

<p>Congratulations on all your daughter's wonderful achievements!</p>

3

<p>I believe this is a common dilemma, especially where there are highly thought of public schools. You should check the "Merit scholarship" thread, stickied in the financial aid forum I believe. There may also be links within that (very long thread) to other, historical, insights as well.</p>

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<p>We have a similar situation here (times 2, since my boys are twins). We made an elaborate chart in two sections... "Money No Object" and "It Costs HOW Much?" It's a tough decision. My feeling for my kids is that if they can keep their debt load to one year's tuition, go for it. If not, chase the money.</p>

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<p>I'm a little confused, so she didn't get the Morehead - how much will she get at UNC-CH?? Is the 15K for tuition and R&B?</p>

<p>If she was in serious contention for the Morehead, there are several private colleges in the South that will give her more than what is essentially half tuition (12K). But they won't address your real question - she has made up her mind, but we can't afford it.
It seems that the difference in Campbell and UNC is 50-60K over 4 years - if that seems like a HUGE and insurmountable amount to you right now, and she is thinking med school, I would suggest that she follow the money, perhaps even consider another branch of UNC that would give her a full ride.</p>

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<p>I can't help wondering that while she may feel comfortable with Campbell U. now, it looks to me like a place she could grow out of. Is the curriculum as demanding? Are the students as engaged? Are there similar opportunities for research and internships? UNC is one of the top universities in the country, not just the region. (I see from another thread it's also top of the list of Kiplinger's 100 Best Value Public Universities.)</p>

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<p>My DIL had the exact same decision to make between Campbell and Chapel Hill. The only difference was that the scholarship she received to Campbell and the small one to Chapel Hill, made Campbell the cheaper option. In the end she decided on UNC for two reasons--one was she actually wanted a larger school and the second was that there was no good shopping near Campbell (didn't say they were both good reasons!).</p>

<p>It's a hard decision, but both are great schools. My son went to his first choice school (at a higher cost) and ended up not liking it--transferred to a school he wouldn't even consider as a high school senior.</p>

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<p>My D also wants to be a doctor and our deal with her was that if we had to pay a lot for her undergrad she will be on her own for med school (we are older parents - Dad is already retired and in poor health - so no way to replenish the coffers). If we do not have to pay out much for undergrad then the money saved will be hers for med school. She elected to go to a school where she has very good merit money and between that and some financial aid (including WS that she uses for spending money) we have only paid for books this year. The money in her college savings account is sitting untouched (and hopefully growing) and will be hers, as promised, for med school.</p>

<p>For her the choice was easy - she wanted to minimize the debt (yes there will still be some) she starts her working life with. (that sentence is awkward but I can't get my brain around how to rewrite it).</p>

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<p>mathmom said what I was thinking. We were faced with this decision last year - two great schools; the smaller one was D's favorite, but larger school offered more merit. Money was not our only deciding factor (both older kids went to their favorite, despite it not being the best financially), so we made a comparison chart, to see what she would get and give up for the money. We found a couple things:</p>

<ol>
<li> On the things that mattered, both schools fit the bill. (Umm, that's why she applied to them in the first place.)</li>
<li> The favorite school had a few plusses, but also a few negatives.</li>
<li> Ditto for the cheaper larger school.</li>
</ol>

<p>In the end, we decided that the favorite school did not give us enough value-added for the cost. D went to the larger school, and has since found:</p>

<ol>
<li> Larger school means more activities, more potential friends, more opportunities socially and academically.</li>
<li> More class offerings to chose from.</li>
<li> More majors.<br></li>
<li> More foreign language offerings.<br></li>
<li> More people who are like her, and more people different from her.
And so on.</li>
</ol>

<p>In hindsight, I do believe she would have outgrown the smaller school.</p>

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<p>To Cangel: Let me see if I can clarify. The 15K a year at UNC-Chapel Hill is tuition and room and board. She did not get the Moorehead, but they do have other scholarships, but we will have no idea whether she will get them until spring. So it could be 15 K we will be paying or maybe less.</p>

<p>Campbell is around 25-28K a year and she hopefully can get a 12K scholarship that will still have tuition and R&B left at about 13K. But if she gets scholarships for UNC-Chapel Hill, it could be much less than the 15K tuition and R&B.</p>

<p>I do want to clarify another thing....she has not totally made up her mind. She likes the idea of a smaller college and Campbell appealed to her better on her visit. She has told us that she will go to whichever we are financially comfortable sending her to. Also, if I KNEW what was best for her all around, we would make it happen for her, we'd find a way. But we just don't know which is best for her. Campbell is an excellent school, but I just somehow feel that UNC-Chapel Hill be be better for her.</p>

<p>I don't know. I didn't mean to sound like a cheapskate. :o) I really want what is BEST for my daughter....and now that it's down to these two....well it's just hard.</p>

<p>As far as a "branch of UNC that would give her a full ride" is concerned. They all have to go to one area of study "arts and sciences" for the first two years of UNC-Chapel Hill, and can declare a major only after that time. This is for all incoming students.</p>

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<p>salem, I think the poster meant by a "branch" is UNCC, UNCG, UNCW--at those schools she would be at the very top of applicants and most likely get larger scholarships.</p>

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<p>I assume she doesn't have to decide yet. It's a long time from January to April/May, and kids do a lot of changing in the interim.</p>

<p>My d also applied to a lot of small colleges; she thought she'd feel more comfortable there because she really likes the Q&A/seminar type classes, and liked the "feel" of the schools. She applied to one slightly bigger (4200) school for a variety of reasons. Once she got in, she revisited the schools. It was interesting to see how her viewpoint had changed. Initially, she looked at each school as, "Could I learn here? Do they have what I want? Am I what they want?" On the revisits, she asked other questions: "OK, I have what they want. Now, can I not only learn here, but live here for four years?" She herself came to the conclusion that she'll outgrow the smaller schools, in the sense that they'll become claustrophobic for her. She's at the larger school now and very happy.</p>

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<p>I'm from Maryland, and a lot of kids around here would kill for the chance to go to UNC-Chapel Hill. It is, after all, one of the best state universities in the country, and it's known for its friendly atmosphere and great college town. People just love this school.</p>

<p>Among the hundred or so students from the IB program my daughter graduated from, 8 ended up at UNC-Chapel Hill, making it the second most popular choice after our own state university. </p>

<p>That said, it would be great if your daughter can have the choice of which college to attend. But she needs to know the financial consequences. If the degree to which you will be able to help with medical school costs is affected by the college she chooses now, she needs to know that.</p>

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<p>I would be concerned that at a public school even one with a great rep like Chapel hill- the pre-req courses for medical school ( organic chem etc) will be geared to weeding out students. Most public schools do not have enough space for everyone who wants to take those courses, ( this is also in engineering) so weed out courses are not uncommon-Now she might thrive in that sort of atmosphere I don't know- but I would rather my kid have the support they need to pass then worry about them flunking out.</p>

<p>However- it does appear that some profs are aware of this & they may have made accomodations to support students
It's worth digging into I think.

[quote]
To achieve this goal, we must move away from an education access model based on selectivity to one based on inclusivity. The first step in such a shift is to re-evaluate the "gateway" courses to our most competitive majors. Currently designed to "weed out" students, these courses must be redesigned to ensure that they are sensitive to diverse cultural orientations and styles of learning of the student population of the future. If this is not done, we run the risk of excluding some students from majors of their choice based not on ability, but, rather, on flawed, culturally biased course designs.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>UNIVERSITY</a> GAZETTE | October 20, 2004 | The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill</p>

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<p>These are all very helpful replies!! Please keep them coming. They are helping me think more clearly. I know that UNC-Chapel Hill is one of the top rated universities in the country and is HARD to get accepted to. I am very proud that she was accepted. For ME, personally, I think UNC-Chapel Hill would be the best choice and fit for her....but she doesn't fully realize that yet. :) If I had that brain and was 18 again...you bet that's where I would be. It made a profound impression on me on our tour day. But I'm not the one we have to please, lol!</p>

<p>Please keep the discussion going. It's very helpful.</p>

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<p>Another factor to consider is the average freshman retention rate at each school. UNC Chapel Hill reported a 96% retention rate, while Campbell Univ. reported an 82% freshman retention rate. In my opinion, absent a special program not available at the more academically challenging school, always go with the best quality of fellow students. Your daughter may be a great fit at Amherst, Williams or one of the other elite and academically demanding LACs. It is quite difficult for many students to return for the sophomore year only to discover that nearly 20% of her classmates are gone, and there is a 20% chance that she may be one of them, or, at least, wish that she was. Davidson College offers Belk scholarships to several students each year that are less competitive than the one you mentioned in your first post. To me, college should be a place to grow, not a search for a comfort zone.</p>

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<p>I feel as though it is apples and oranges to some extent, yet to my mind the choice seems pretty clear. UNC-Chapel Hill is a great and very well known university; your D will be exposed to so much academically and intellectually there--and the varied social and cultural interactions and opportunities will also be tremendous. Even the best small school might be challenged to replicate this (and by "best" I guess I mean highly ranked nationally known liberal arts colleges). Campbell may well be an excellent school but I suspect it might not provide the kind of setting that would necessarily help your high-achieving daughter develop further in multiple areas. </p>

<p>If your D prefers a small school she might have done well to look into more widely recognized small schools in the Williams/Amherst/Carleton/Bowdoin category--or Davidson if she wanted to stay close to home--or focused on small but still fairly well-known schools that give merit aid. I feel that by trying to choose between UNC-Chapel Hill and a small and not well known school you and she are putting two very different styles of educational institution up against each other--and, also a concern, possibly two quite different qualities of education. In short, I would go with UNC-CH--there is too much left to learn in many areas, and your D sounds as though she would thrive in a place that leaves her room to grow--in this case, a gold-standard state university.</p>

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<p>"Another factor to consider is the average freshman retention rate at each school. UNC Chapel Hill reported a 96% retention rate, while Campbell Univ. reported an 82% freshman retention rate. In my opinion, absent a special program not available at the more academically challenging school, always go with the best quality of fellow students."</p>

<p>So how do I go about comparing these schools objectively like apples and apples?</p>

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<p>I agree with Mattmom. You cannot compare the two on a reasonably equal basis. My best guess based on the posted info. is that your daughter applied to the wrong schools. She needs to consider Davidson College and Wake Forest University if her preference is to stay close to home.</p>

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<p>Things to look at when comparing schools that might give some idea as to which are simply stronger academically or provide greater academic and cultural opportunities.</p>

<p>SAT scores of accepted and attending students; percentage of undergraduates gaining graduate and professional school admission; where the professors got their Ph.Ds and what percentage of them are full time profs (and indeed have Ph.Ds.).</p>

<p>As I noted in my earlier post, the size of the student body will determine course offerings to some extent--no small school can be compared quantitatively in this regard to a large university. You might want to compare Campbell's online course listing to Williams or Amherst, which are two superlative small colleges. For a fairer comparison you could look at Campbell's academic catalog versus slightly less stratospheric but still excellent nationally ranked small schools like Bates or Kenyon. I would look at course offerings within departments of interest or potential interest to your D. </p>

<p>Musical and athletic offerings are a factor too--can't beat UNC basketball as a spectator sport! Also consider cultural life, both student-generated (orchestra, band, dramatic productions, a capella groups) and what comes to campus to entertain students.</p>