Oh gosh, what a decision!!!

Parents Forum
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<p>two schools? aren't there any others on the radar? Why is it you can look at 30 pairs of shoes to pick one pair, but only two schools? ;) (kidding)</p>

<p>Your situation is the same for many families (including mine) where the real world (cost) clashes with the perfect world (wants). These situations are on many posts here and often break down to a spiting match of who is a better parent by what they do for their kid. Gets kinda ugly after a few pages.</p>

<p>You've just got to lay them out side by side and compare. Cheva's situation is about perfect in the way you figure things.. simply ask questions about the situation till you're more certain of the fit in both the wallet and heart. </p>

<p>If this were a home you were buying, would you simply buy the house you want and not worry about paying for it? If it were a car? </p>

<p>At this point, these posts start to turn a bit ugly as those who will do "anything for their child" will start to make those who "think it through" feel bad for "not caring enough" to send their child where ever they want to go. Then those who "think it through" will start to question the judgement of those who will "do anything" without thoughts about cost as foolish and then it's on...;) </p>

<p>Good luck, do the best you can and don't worry about what anybody here thinks.</p>

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<p>Do your best data mining on the web and find out teacher/student ratios, retention rates, and graduation rates for each school. Look at career planning services and average salaries or entry rates into grad schools. If you can't find this info, call.
I understand the dilemma you're in. My s went the other way...I liked the small schools and he liked the big schools. It was easier for us since the big schools turned out to be cheaper.
We visited UNC and LOVED it. My s didn't apply because he didn't like the high percentage of north carolina students AND he thought he probably wouldn't get in - even though he was a top notch student. OOS standards are even tougher. In retrospect, I know he would apply if he had a chance to do it over again.<br>
So will she have to take loans to go to Campbell? IMO, if the cost is significantly more than UNC, then I think it's entirely appropriate to ask her to contribute to those costs. This will really make her think. For example, you mention she could keep her car at Campbell. Would she pay for it? Maybe she should (insurance, gas and all). I know this may sound to some like stacking the deck in UNC's favor. I just don't believe that kids should make a decision w/o considering cost. Yes, she worked hard...but I see that parents and students are in this together. Cost IS a factor - at least is sounds like it is from what you've posted so far...</p>

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<p>The thing is, in this case the probably better school sounds as if it is also the cheaper school--you are so fortunate to live in a state where that is an underlying reality for high-achieving in-state students!</p>

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<p>From a crass Yankee:</p>

<p>I'm sure that Campbell is a fine school, much-beloved by many people in your area. But the reality is that it has 0 reputation in much of the country and (unless I am looking at the wrong Campbell) the stats of its students are not very good. So it is quite possible that the achievements of your daughter in college may be devalued if she attends there.</p>

<p>Further, for all of our hand-wringing, neither we nor our children really have any idea about what the next four years will bring, so we really don't know which college will provide the "best" experience (although we might have a better idea of what might be a nonfit for a particular student).</p>

<p>So from a purely logical perspective, there really is no choice here. As for what your daughter's heart might say, and whether you wish to indulge that response, there is nothing that anybody on this list can tell you.</p>

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<p>So what happens if like the vast majority of pre-meds your daughter decides Freshman or Sophomore year that she's not interested in medicine?</p>

<p>I don't have a POV on which school.... although all things being equal, it would be very hard to beat UNC..... but you may want to challenge your daughter to think through various scenarios. What if she decides to major in Neuroscience or Biostatistics with an eye towards a PhD and not an MD? what if she decides to go to law school and focus on public policy and health care? What if she takes a linquistics course or one on Renaissance Art and switches direction entirely?</p>

<p>If she can envision herself happy and challenged and provided with opportunity at the smaller school then great; in my experience, the small schools work out well for kids who choose them with a certain path in mind and then follow that path; the kids who end up changing direction often end up transferring to make that new plan a reality. She might also want to check out the depth of the med school counseling at the smaller school- do they provide access to research opportunities? Can they provide names of recent alums now in med school who can give her perspective? </p>

<p>Good luck to you on raising such a great kid.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I didn't mean to sound like a cheapskate.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>It's not being a "cheapskate" to decline something that is too burdensome financially. That is real life, especially with med school looming.</p>

<p>Perhaps figure out how much money you can reasonably afford and tell DD how much that is. DD then can figure out if she wants to spends that money on undergrad or med school, if she can earn more herself, etc. Once she realizes that saving, say, $15,000 per year undergrad can be a huge help for her down the road, she may find UNC more appealing. Or she may not, but the decision can become hers, not yours. </p>

<p>Or, another possibility is simply to say that unless financial aid comes to $X, we're sorry but we can't afford Campbell. I'd feel bad saying that too, but I'd still say it if I needed to. Reality is reality. Life will go on and she'll get a great education at Chapel Hill.</p>

<p>We may be doing our children less of a favor than we think we are when we move heaven and earth, compromise our retirement, radically shortchange ourselves financially, to accommodate what they consider to be their college dream.</p>

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<p>salem: Didn't your daughter graduate from the NC School of Science and Math? Correct me if I'm wrong. If she did, though, her tuition at any UNC system school is free.</p>

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<p>JanieBlue, she was accepted to the NC School of Science and math. She went there for 3 weeks and was so homesick and miserable she asked to come home. Since she was only 16, I wasn't about to make her stay if she was miserable. See why it's so important for her to like where she is going? :) Ironically, she thought she would LOVE NCSSM but she was miserable there because she was so homesick. Again, she was only 16. Possibly, if she had stuck it out a little longer she would have gotten use to it, but I didn't insist she stay. </p>

<p>Nice of you to remember. It has been over a year and a half since I posted about that. And yes, if you graduate from there tuition at any university of NC is free, but you have to pay room and board which is half the cost. Still a good deal though.</p>

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<p>Salem, My neighbor's D is a freshman at Campbell. She was first deferred and then rejected at UNC-CH (instate). If she had gotten in UNC, she would have gone there. She was also accepted at Appalachian State and NC State. This girl was a good student at our h.s but not nearly as strong as your D sounds and she received the full President's scholarship from Campbell. Your D's chances of getting that one are pretty high I would think. So that would bring the cost down pretty close to UNC-CH (with no scholarships).</p>

<p>My friend reports that her D is fairly bored on weekends. She says her dorm empties out as most of the girls in her freshman dorm head home every weekend. She took 18 hours the first semester and breezed through it, though she is an Arts major so there was no Chemistry, Calculus, etc.<br>
Friend also reports her D is spending lots of money on gas and food because they go out to eat a lot (for entertainment) and since there is nothing very close by, she uses a lot of gas driving back and forth. I asked my friend if she thought the boredom would be enough to make her D transfer. She wasn't sure after just one semester.</p>

<p>The good part is that she got a part in a theater production first semester and will be working for a theater prof. in his own off campus production this semester. Her theater friends from h.s have not had those opportunities at the bigger U's. Her dorm room is nice ( large and clean on move-in day) and the campus is very safe. </p>

<p>From what I hear (no hard statistics), many of the students at Campbell are strong Christians who attend Bible studies and Chapel serivices which is great if that is something your D is looking for but may be uncomfortable if it is not her thing. There is definitely no night life in Buies Creek, although they are getting football next year..go Camels. </p>

<p>I probably haven't helped you here but just thought I'd throw in what I've heard from my friend.</p>

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<p>I don't see this being about costs as the two options seem like they may end up in the same ballpark. If it were my kid I'd be strongly encouraging Chapel Hill. I think she'd be sacrificing a lot of opportunity just to be close to home. But it's your kid and it sounds like you need to talk about the homesickness vs. opportunities aspects of this decision.</p>

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<p>"Salem, My neighbor's D is a freshman at Campbell. She was first deferred and then rejected at UNC-CH (instate). If she had gotten in UNC, she would have gone there. She was also accepted at Appalachian State and NC State. This girl was a good student at our h.s but not nearly as strong as your D sounds and she received the full President's scholarship from Campbell. Your D's chances of getting that one are pretty high I would think. So that would bring the cost down pretty close to UNC-CH (with no scholarships).</p>

<p>My friend reports that her D is fairly bored on weekends. She says her dorm empties out as most of the girls in her freshman dorm head home every weekend. She took 18 hours the first semester and breezed through it, though she is an Arts major so there was no Chemistry, Calculus, etc.
Friend also reports her D is spending lots of money on gas and food because they go out to eat a lot (for entertainment) and since there is nothing very close by, she uses a lot of gas driving back and forth. I asked my friend if she thought the boredom would be enough to make her D transfer. She wasn't sure after just one semester.</p>

<p>The good part is that she got a part in a theater production first semester and will be working for a theater prof. in his own off campus production this semester. Her theater friends from h.s have not had those opportunities at the bigger U's. Her dorm room is nice ( large and clean on move-in day) and the campus is very safe. </p>

<p>From what I hear (no hard statistics), many of the students at Campbell are strong Christians who attend Bible studies and Chapel serivices which is great if that is something your D is looking for but may be uncomfortable if it is not her thing. There is definitely no night life in Buies Creek, although they are getting football next year..go Camels. </p>

<p>I probably haven't helped you here but just thought I'd throw in what I've heard from my friend."</p>

<p>PackMom, you have helped me tremendously with your comments. We only live an hour and a half away from Campbell, so she may would come home every weekend if there was hardly anyone left there and at the cost of gas these days....well. Also, I would really rather her stay on campus most weekends as I think it would help her adjust more. (However my selfish side would rather her come home because I love her company). Also, I would hate that she would have to drive all over creation to find something to do. At UNC-Chapel Hill, EVERYTHING is either on campus or right across the street. She would not even NEED a car. However, she is a very strong Christian and is looking at Campbell with that in mind. BUT, I still think she would find like-minded folk at a big college like UNC-Chapel Hill. (I guess you can see where MY preference lies. :))</p>

<p>I really appreciate your telling me the inside scoop of Campbell. I work with a woman who went to Campbell and she sings it's praises and with another woman's whose son went there and is now a pharmacist that sings it's praises, but I had not thought of the seclusion aspect of it...gas, and all you mentioned. Thank you very much!</p>

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<p>My suggestion is this:</p>

<p>If both schools aren't that far away, visit them each a couple of times- see a play, go to a game, take a half day of school and wander the campus while school is in session</p>

<p>Let things mumminate a bit</p>

<p>Also, visit the areas around the school- for some a big city is a must, for others, the fresh air and space is a must</p>

<p>You have lots of time-</p>

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<p>From blossom:
[quote]
in my experience, the small schools work out well for kids who choose them with a certain path in mind and then follow that path

[/quote]

This was the experience my d. had. She attended a very small school (1200 students) with a particular major in mind. This school is nationally recognized for this unique major. Well, she made lots of friends, enjoyed the major--but realized that in regards to employment, it wasn't very marketable. She probably should have transferred, but didn't want to leave her equestrian team or friends. If she had it to do over, she would have attended a larger school, with more options and foregone the nationally recognized equestrian team.</p>

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<p>I looked at Davidson, and unfortunately, its application date has passed. It does seem like it would be a wonderful compromise for your daughter. It it were me, I would be tempted to put her in the car tomorrow, drive there, and if she likes it walk into the admissions office and see if there is anyway there could extend the application deadline.</p>

<p>I would be very wary of a child choosing a college because it was so close to home and she could keep her car. It sounds like she might night be ready to make a break with childhood and home. </p>

<p>I perused the Campbell site, and I don't know your personal values, but I would be disturbed at sending either of my children to a school with so little diversity. Yes, there are many wonderful colleges that are affiliated with religious institutions. Davidson is actually one of them. But most liberal arts colleges want to teach the values supported by a liberal arts education. This includes questioning. Campbell stressed that it was teaching "Christian values." So I don't see any diversity of opinion being expressed. I would be worried, let's say, in a class about human evolution. Is Darwin dismissed?</p>

<p>The only private school in our area had an evangelical slant. And when we asked about Darwin they made it clear it would not be taught at all and that students would be taught that homosexuality is wrong.</p>

<p>Maybe this is the environment you want for your daughter. It certainly isn't my place to judge, but I don't think this prepares students for the real world as well. JMHO. </p>

<p>You daughter sounds like a top drawer kid. I think you should look for the environment that will help her develop into a top drawer adult. UNC is a wonderful school, but if she really wants a smaller environment, and a semi-Christian one too, as I said, I would go banging on the door of the Davidson folks.</p>

<p>I don't see this really as being a matter of money because you don't even know how the money is going to play out. If Davidson doesn't bite, I would research other schools with a 1/15 deadline to give a few more options.</p>

<p>You have two very different schools here; there are options in-between.</p>

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<p>I second citygirlsmom to go visit both schools, over and over and over again. Maybe she can do some overnights. The more she sees the two schools, the better she will feel she knows them. And then she'll be able to make the just-right decision for her.</p>

<p>Another thought, Salem: You say she came home from [sorry, I don't remember the name of the private school] after only three weeks because she was so homesick. And you say she wants to go to Campbell because it's close to home. You need to consider whether this is a good thing or a bad thing. For me, I would want my kid to be truly away from home, learning about new things, having to face a few challenges on his/her own. I wouldn't want my kid to go to a school close by where she could come home every weekend. That just makes it, as a good friend of mine said, "high school with ashtrays."</p>

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<p>Here's a thought, may not help much, but it's what I often tell my own children. What matters most is that you make whatever choice you decide upon the right choice.</p>

<p>Let's face it, there are so many ways to fulfill one's destiny and so many decisions along the way. I'd advise her to use her gut instincts, after careful review of all the variables, and then do her best to make that decisions right.</p>

<p>The other thing that my wife and I have done is to give our son a budget. Works like this. He gets X amount for college from us. If he gets a full ride, that's money in the bank for graduate school, downpayment on a house, retirement, or whatever. If he really wants a college experience that is more expensive than that, he goes into debt to the tune of whatever the difference is.</p>

<p>Afterall, shouldn't these bright and wonderful kids be willing to invest in their own future? Anyway, there are so many ways to do it right. </p>

<p>p.s. We're facing a similar dilema and waiting for all the data to come in. Ultimately, it's his decision and we'll accept his choice.</p>

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<p>Well, since salem raised the cost issue: Davidson is ~$44,000 a year; UNC-CH, instate $~15,000; Campbell ~18,000 (I couldn't find that it was $25,000 a year-- I must have missed something on their site.)</p>

<p>She may very well receive money from both UNC and Campbell. Even if she visited Davidson, decided she liked it, too, managed to get in an application, and to receive aid, I doubt that any lowered costs would match either UNC or Campbell (with or without aid).</p>

<p>I would wait to see what the financials look like. I also agree with the person who said to visit both, do overnights, etc. Certainly, a wealth of Christian fellowships and organizations exists on the UNC campus, so she would not have a problem there.</p>

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<p>JanieBlue, the 18,000.00 is just for tuition, not room and board. College</a> Search - Campbell University - CU - Cost & Financial Aid</p>

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<p>Oh, thanks, salem. I really think she should take some time to spend at both campuses. I'm guessing, since she was accepted to NCSSM, that Campbell may end up not being acadmically challenging for her.</p>

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<p>salem, I hope you will encourage your daughter to deal with the larger more varied horizons at Chapel Hill even though you may feel apprehensive about her not being happy with her brief weeks at the boarding public honors high school at age 16. </p>

<p>18 segues quickly into age 20....I recently saw my son at age 21 after he spent a semester abroad and he seems like a grown man, and barely resembles my former HS senior...don't underestimate her ability to adapt in a larger setting even if you have to provide emotional support/encouragement at first. Freshman year will have its downers no matter where you go, even at small schools! </p>

<p>She may have some apprehensions at first re finding a core group of people of her outlook re faith, but they are most definitely present on campus at all colleges and Chapel Hill has many active faith organizations where she can get started building her first circle of friends. She may have to work harder to keep her own counsel re her faith in Chapel Hill's diverse setting but , but she will also have the joy of being with top students all day long who may expand her horizons in ways that are all positive.</p>

<p>I admit I think she will get a better education at Chapel Hill, and could benefit for a lifetime from taking it on... and that although Campbell might be able to do a great job in some smaller classes and labs that can be a strain in large intro courses at Chapel Hill/UVa/ and other top state public universities...the trade offs at Chapel Hill are just too grand to give up. Chapel Hill clearly manages to give a laudably intimate education despite its status as the state flagship college branch and she will be among other students as highly motivated as she is for all four years. The sense of fun/school spirit factor in the town is something we hear about all over the USA, and she may be more prepared to enter the work force and grad school of her choice by making learning how to her way in Chapel Hill during these formative years. </p>

<p>I am by the way a graduate of Furman University, and I greatly appreciated the power of small classes and my teachers still call me by first name thirty years later when I show up now and then. But it is not the only good way to get an education. My son at Duke has found ways to turn Duke into a small learning evironment at many junctures, too, although he had to tough out the larger sections in intro courses like everyone else. If you look, you can find small learning experiences within any size school.
It was my experience that students who identified as "strong Christians" at Furman could manage quite well at keeping their personal faith standards when they arrived later at the Univeristy of GA etc...unless she really is too shy for Chapel Hill and you feel she would be very unhappy among people of different religious persuasions and outlooks. It feels good for Campbell to pursue her, but she may outgrow it in a year or two.</p>