<p>She said she doesn’t plan to apologize because she doesn’t believe she did anything wrong. She said, laughing, that if using the word “he**” was a sin, she doesn’t want to add another sin of lying on top.</p>
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<p>What if the school rule is asinine or worse, is immoral/unethical and/or violates a student’s basic constitutional rights?</p>
<p>Would you say the same thing about students who participated in Civil Rights Marches or interracial relationships…especially those from regions where segregation/miscegenation laws was heavily supported? </p>
<p>How about challenging the school administration/teachers if it was found by the student(s) that they were engaging in dubious or even illegal activities and they were punished by the former to “shut them up”?</p>
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<p>There is nothing sacrosanct about school rules. People in positions of authority often overstep their boundaries when creating them and use bullying tactics to enforce them. The principal is clearly in the wrong to withhold a graduate’s diploma pending a written apology. Giving in to such tactics will only make it worse for students still in the system.</p>
<p>Maybe I’ve missed it somewhere, but does this HS actually have a rule that the word “hell” cannot be used in public address? Or that valedictory speeches must match the written script word for word? Do we even know if there is a rule that the student’s speech must be preapproved?</p>
<p>I just haven’t seen the rule that she broke listed anywhere.</p>
<p>When I think about the speech I gave 35 years ago – no adult saw it first, and while I didn’t use the word “hell” I did say something along the lines of our schools being more concerned about conformity than creative thought.</p>
<p>I would also suggest that a principal that would get so vindictive about 3 letters in a graduation speech is likely to be presiding over a culture that is punitive and vindictive in general. In which case, the kid who has gotten all As and been successful probably does know something about picking her battles.</p>
<p>My oldest doesn’t have a high school diploma or GRE, but she does have a BA and a great job. Just saying.</p>
<p>What a bunch of bubbas the school administrators appear to be – thank goodness she’s getting the hell out of Dodge.</p>
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<p>There’s NO culture / world in the US in which what a high school administrator thinks matters once a student’s gotten into college.</p>
<p>The girl is not a villain, but she’s no hero either. She was not standing up for anything more than her perceived right to use coarse language in a speech to a mixed audience. In the context of her speech, he** was not a Biblical noun any more than calling someone an as* is claiming they are furry and have big ears.</p>
<p>It’s true school officials often turn into petty tyrants. However, they are trying to control hundreds of kids, and that isn’t easy to do. By the end of the year they get kind of desperate over managing the seniors since they have lost most of their leverage. So if ordinarily cutting a day of school means the student gets a detention, cutting a day of school after senior prom suddenly warrants not being allowed to walk at graduation. A ridiculous penalty, but that’s the way it goes these days. The principal likely fears that if he lets this one go without a fight, there will be a worse breech next year. Is he wrong to think that?</p>
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<p>There IS always the option of not having a class speaker at all. Giving a student the chance to speak while demanding to closely control the content is a farce.</p>
<p>Even those students whose infractions are serious enough to merit being banned from the graduation ceremony receive their diplomas.</p>
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<p>And that is why this case of Dumb and Dumber has been such a waste. It was a silly slip by the student (intended or not) and the request for an apology was as easy an out that could possibly have been given to the failing Red Devil! This was not about any great cause or anything worth fighting for in the court of public opinion. </p>
<p>The fact that such stupidity became public knowledge is the real tragedy here – thanks to the misguided parents in this sorry affair. It is an embarrassment for ALL parties involved: for the student, for the school, and above all for those clueless parents.</p>
<p>“The principal likely fears that if he lets this one go without a fight, there will be a worse breech next year. Is he wrong to think that?”</p>
<p>Right or wrong, and whether he lets this one go without a fight or not, this principal has basically now advertised to future student speakers a way they can get in one last “dig” at the administration.</p>
<p>Re: post #89–Not at our public high school, scubasue. If you don’t pay your overdue book fines, or return your soccer uniform, or commit any of a number of small infractions your diploma is withheld. Particular emphasis is placed on senior attendance in the final weeks of school. Failing to show up can mean the loss of your diploma too. The latter is a financial matter, since the district loses federal money if they don’t maintain a certain daily attendance percentage.</p>
<p>At our pool club yesterday, there were lots of teenagers. The f-word (and its various forms) was used prolifically. Among a group of African-American teenagers, the n word was flying around too. Literally every other sentence contained the phrase “little ni**er.” So it appears that these words are part of the teen culture also, limabeans01. Should they be allowed in a graduation speech?</p>
<p>GFG…now you’re referring to cases in which students still have school property, where a barter <em>might</em> make sense (i.e.–“you give me our property, I’ll give you yours.”). That is not the case here. </p>
<p>Students who lose their privilige to walk at graduation because of a behavior infraction, they ditched school after prom, or because they were involved with some kind of alcohol incident, for instance, still get THEIR diplomas.</p>
<p>Again, she owes the principal an apology. NOT for using what some people think is a swear word, but for reneging on an agreeement. (Though I don’t think she should issue an insincere one.) Whether I agree with the requirement that val speeches can only be delivered if the content is sanctioned by “the state” or not, she was aware of that policy and agreed to abide by it. </p>
<p>The apology though should NOT be in trade for her diploma. That alone would render the gesture meaningless.</p>
<p>Why all the hair-splitting? The principal wanted an apology, and that is all she needed to write to make this thing go away without further ado. The first issue could be chalked to a mistake, a slip of the tongue, etc, but she made this into something more, compounding silliness and immaturity.</p>
<p>Apparently, it seems like the school district is on the side of the school or else, they would have made the school grant the student a diploma. It seems like the school and the district policy gives the school a lot of latitude </p>
<p>The school’s handbook states the following</p>
<p>Pg 22
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<p>pg 25</p>
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<p>pg 28</p>
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<p>pg 31
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<p>Prague School district policy </p>
<p>District Policy 506 School Discipline</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.np.k12.mn.us/policies/files/506.pdf[/url]”>http://www.np.k12.mn.us/policies/files/506.pdf</a></p>
<p>Section 510</p>
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<p>Section III part A</p>
<p>The school board expects all students who participate in school sponsored activities to represent the school and community in a responsible manner. All rules pertaining to student conduct and student discipline extend to school activities</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.np.k12.mn.us/policies/files/510.pdf[/url]”>http://www.np.k12.mn.us/policies/files/510.pdf</a>
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<p>No, scubasue, they actually don’t get their diplomas if they break the rules. The diploma is the last piece of leverage the school has over the seniors to ensure good behavior all the way through to the end of the commencement ceremony. In fact, another reason that a student can lose his diploma at our public school is if he commits an inappropriate act during the graduation ceremony, examples of which are specified beforehand–eg. if he or his relatives use a foghorn or similar noisemaking device.</p>
<p>Ever? They don’t ever get their diplomas?</p>
<p>I’m not sure if they can get it at some later point. The sort of student likely to do something stupid during the ceremony would probably not be the college-bound ones (a generalization, I know), and those kids without college plans really do need a copy of their diploma in order to get a job. So they behave. Actually, I pretty sure I had to submit copies of BOTH my high school and college diplomas to get my first job.</p>
<p>Interesting, theGFG. </p>
<p>My experience was the opposite:</p>
<p>Re high school: Never had any physical need for the diploma or any need to have the transcript sent anywhere after the college application process was done with.</p>
<p>Re college: Never had any physical need for the diploma or any need to have to have the transcript sent anywhere beyond when I applied for grad school.</p>
<p>As an employer / hiring manager, both for a Fortune 500 company and now for a private firm, I’ve never, ever requested transcripts. We’ve always trusted that people got the GPA’s they said they did, and it’s not a primary hiring criterion anyway – it’s how you present yourself in the interview that really matters.</p>
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<p>That certainly doesn’t apply to most HS kids I’ve known who’ve done so and gotten into trouble for it. If anything, most tended to either top 10-15% kids who ended up at elite colleges like HYPSMCC/SYAR or late bloomers who ended up excelling in undergrad, going onto some of the most elite grad schools, and ultimately success in career and life. There also tends to be a higher proportion of natural leaders and self-starting entrepreneurs in this group as well. </p>
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<p>That was probably the case 20-30 years ago and maybe still the case for a few old-school employers. However, for myself, most friends, colleagues, and other folks I’ve known…most post-college jobs don’t require submission of either diploma…certainly not a high school diploma. </p>
<p>Come to think of it, the few folks I knew who needed to submit anything school related were asked to submit college transcripts for all undergrad courses taken. </p>
<p>A reason why I and most folks of my generation (late GenX) found it odd when parents/grandparents recounted having to submit copies of high school/college diplomas for jobs. </p>
<p>Especially after one HR colleague I chatted with at lunch several years back mentioned a reason why they no longer request diplomas…they’re aren’t as informative as an actual transcript and they’re far too easy to fake nowadays with high tech electronic equipment or access to stores like Kinkos.</p>