What *is* a diploma?

Parents Forum
1

<p>On BayAreaDad's thread about his D's expulsion from h.s., he said they were withholding her diploma and there was some discussion there about whether or not one had to have a diploma. It was suggested that one would need a GED if one did not have a diploma.</p>

<p>I always thought a diploma was just the pretty piece of paper to put on the wall, but a transcript was the record of your completion of h.s. coursework. No college asks you to send a diploma, however you might have to write down somewhere whether you received a diploma.</p>

<p>We have home schooled our kids, and on home school email lists, I have frequently calmed anxious parents by telling them not to worry about the diploma. They can print something pretty on the computer. But they do need a transcript reflecting their kid's work and that he had met the requirements for h.s. graduation according to their state (if the state regulates that, which in many cases they don't since home schools are usually viewed as unaccredited private schools).</p>

<p>So, is a diploma anything in itself?</p>

2

<p>I have the piece of paper in a box somewhere and have never had to show it to anyone. Generally if someone needs to confirm that you graduated they will just contact the school directly. The same goes for college degrees... nobody ever asks to see the actual physical degree certificate but they might want either a transcript or call the college to confirm that you graduated. Once you're in college and beyond, nobody cares about high school anymore.</p>

3

<p>In the beginning of my career, I discovered that transcripts meant much more than the actual diploma. I found out that after 5 or so years in the workforce, nobody cares about either piece of paper. My references from my previous places of emplyment are much more meaningful.</p>

4

<p>
[quote]
No college asks you to send a diploma, however you might have to write down somewhere whether you received a diploma.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>CUNY offers direct admissions at the CC level where many of schools require both the diploma and the official hs transcript with the graduation date for admission.</p>

5

<p>I've needed to send actual copies of my diploma when applying for faculty positions at universities. That was the only time that I needed them.</p>

6

<p>Probably a college diploma is more necessary than the HS one.</p>

7

<p>I left HS early to go to college. I graduated freom Cornell with a nursing degree (BSN) and had to take the GED before I could take my licensing exam in WV--because I didn't have a HS diploma.</p>

8

<br>


<br>

<p>Now with the computer technology to photoshop a pretty good looking diploma, I'll bet most universities and a lot of private companies get direct confirmation of graduation/degrees from the universities. No one wants a Marilee Jones scandal.</p>

9

<p>Our son doesn't have a high-school diploma. He just started taking college courses at 15. Could there be something which requires one in the future? I suppose there could be. But I could just make one up from his evals.</p>

10

<p>Two different legal concepts:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Did you complete the requirements for graduation/degree at a particular institution in a particular state, and did that institution award you that status?</p></li>
<li><p>How do you prove it?</p></li>
</ol>

<p>A "diploma" is an archaic answer to #2. It is a formal certificate, usually bearing the seal of the institution and the holographic signature of one or two authorized officials, stating that you were awarded such-and-such a degree on such-and-such a date. Often fancy paper or parchment is used, to increase the formality and to give it an air of reliability.</p>

<p>Not having a diploma -- i.e., losing it, or skipping the graduation ceremony -- does not mean that you don't have the relevant degree or status, something that, in the modern world, is usually confirmed by the institution upon inquiry, rather than by examination of your diploma.</p>

11

<p>I will just give my experience. About 20 years ago, I left high school without graduating to attend a UC school. I needed to take the CHSPE (the California GED) as a requirement for admission. I've never needed to use that "diploma" again for anything. I don't know how the UC system handles home schoolers.</p>

<p>Personally, if I were homeschooled or homeschooling, I would take the GED or CHSPE or whatever just to have the official equivalency, in case the issue ever came up.</p>

12

<p>
[quote]
CUNY offers direct admissions at the CC level where many of schools require both the diploma and the official hs transcript with the graduation date for admission.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Sybbie, so you are saying that you have to send a copy of the diploma to these schools? I have never heard of that.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I've needed to send actual copies of my diploma when applying for faculty positions at universities. That was the only time that I needed them.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Interesting, Northstarmom. That is the first instance I have been able to find of someone needing to send a copy of his/her diploma. Franglish is probably right that this would only ever happen with a college diploma.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I left HS early to go to college. I graduated freom Cornell with a nursing degree (BSN) and had to take the GED before I could take my licensing exam in WV--because I didn't have a HS diploma.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Bethievt, okay, I know I'm nit-picking here, but I don't think you would have needed a diploma to take the licensing exam....I think instead you would have needed a transcript showing that you had graduated high school.</p>

<p>It is seeming to me that the word "diploma" is like the word "degree". When one says, "I have a degree," they mean that they completed a prescribed course of study which was recognized by a university. They don't mean that they have a piece of paper on the wall. Now, it gets tricky because a diploma can be evidence of the degree (as can a transcript).</p>

<p>In high school, there is no degree. Instead, a transcript is evidence of the diploma, and a diploma is evidence that you completed the requirements for high school graduation. So really, the middleman (the diploma...as a piece of paper) is unnecessary.</p>

<p>Am I missing something important about the actual diploma and what it really is?</p>

<p>Cross-posted with JHS. Thanks for your answer...very enlightening! I hadn't thought of the "archaic" angle. A diploma <em>was</em> important back in the day. Now that everybody has a home computer with a printer....not so much.</p>

13

<p>I'm 53 and I have never had to show either my high school diploma or my college diploma to anyone. In the latter case, this is a good thing, since it arrived with a big rip in it and I never bothered to ask for a replacement.</p>

<p>I have had to produce college transcripts, however, and the transcript says that I graduated.</p>

14

<p>Many homeschoolers give their homeschools names and just issue their own diplomas. It reminds me of the comment that Einstein wouldn't be able to teach physics in high schools today because he never got a teaching certificate.</p>

15

<p>
[quote]
Personally, if I were homeschooled or homeschooling, I would take the GED or CHSPE or whatever just to have the official equivalency, in case the issue ever came up.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>kenf1234, you actually might not. In the homeschooling community, taking the GED is usually not encouraged. It carries the stigma of being a drop-out. Most of those "in the know" in the homeschooling movement will encourage homeschoolers not to take the GED if there is any way around it. These days homeschooling is so widely accepted that it is rarely a problem to have a homeschool transcript.</p>

16

<p>From <a href="http://www.cuny.edu/homeschool:%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.cuny.edu/homeschool:&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>New York State residents who are home-schooled must submit a transcript outlining all completed course work with grades earned. Students must also submit a letter from the superintendent of their school district confirming that all high school graduation requirements of the district have been met through home-schooling. If students cannot obtain the letter from the high school district, they must obtain a General Equivalency Development (GED) Diploma and send an official copy of the results and diploma to the University Application Processing Center (UAPC).</p>

<p>Out-of-state residents who are home-schooled must submit a state-issued diploma. If students have not obtained a state-issued diploma, they must obtain their GED and send an official copy of the results and diploma to UAPC.</p>

<p>From CUNY's application:</p>

<p>TRANSFER APPLICANTS
You are considered a transfer applicant if you have previously attended any
college, university, and/or proprietary school since graduating from high school</p>

<h2>or secondary school.This applies whether or not you are seeking transfer credit and/or changing your program of study.</h2>

<p>There are no requirements for a GED or high-school diploma for transfer students.</p>

<p>It would seem that a simple way around the GED/Diploma requirement would be to take one or more community college courses and then apply as a transfer student.</p>

17

<p>But I didn't graduate from HS, timely. I left after Jr year, without fulfilling the requirements to graduate. My college didn't care, but the state of WV most certainly did. A college diploma was no substitute.</p>

18

<p>I had a look at the license application for WV and my state. The WV application does ask for diploma or GED. Not sure what happens if you leave both sections blank. Our state apparently couldn't care less about high-school.</p>

19

<p>If one applies for some government or academic jobs, s/he can be asked to produce the diploma(s) as well as all transcripts.</p>

20

<p>
[quote]
Sybbie, so you are saying that you have to send a copy of the diploma to these schools? I have never heard of that.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>No, I am saying for direct admissions in to CUNY you must show up in person with your original credentials. Transcripts must contain the school seal sealed and in a sealed envelope signed by the school.</p>