<p>She could take this to court and make it even more controversial lol. And since her school superintendent wants it to remain a private issue, they might just give in. Her dad does state that heck was originally written in her essay, but she accidently said h<[[. I mean we all let a few curse words slip out of our mouths sometimes, despite the circumstance haha. To get pedantic, they can argue that its not written on any document or school law that they can just revoke a 4 yr, self earned degree. In my pov, the girl would easily win that case, if there was to be one</p>
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<p>It wasn’t actually profanity, though. She didn’t tell anyone to “go to hell”. She said “How in the hell am I supposed to know that?” If that’s profanity, then so is “the devil lives in hell”, “a snowball’s chance in hell”, etc.</p>
<p>And this is from a school with the Red Devils! (Which I sincerely hope was not originally a reference to Native Americans but I have an awful feeling . . .)</p>
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<p>Wow, you must have known an *amazing * number of students who did something stupid during a high school ceremony, to be able to draw the conclusion that most of them wound up going to good schools, having life success, and that there’s a higher likelihood of entrepreneurship among them. </p>
<p>I would think most people might only know of, say, 1 or 2 students who did something stupid during a high school ceremony – not enough to draw any conclusions from – but you must know hundreds!</p>
<p>Probably not common, but I have had my college transcript requested by a potential employer and I know a VP of a large company (ranked in the top 200 of Fortune 500) who does request them.</p>
<p>My friend’s husband (HVAC guy) needed to submit a copy of his high school diploma for his job when he was hired recently by a large, well-known company in NJ. I remember this because it was a big pain in the neck. He was originally from Puerto Rico and his school records had gotten put in storage in a different location after a flood at the school. He thought it was an odd request because he had been working for years in the US in that field and had only had to submit copies of his trade certifications prior to that.</p>
<p>You would be surprised at the number of request that we get from and about people who graduated 10/20 years ago requesting school certified copies of transcripts and diplomas. Many of these are for job requests ( for some state agencies, as part of background checks) while other request ate for students who ate going back to complete college. Our records room secretary is a very busy woman, even more so now that undocumented students are applying through the new thing through homeland security that will allow them to apply for work permits and deferrals from deportation if they came to the US as kids.</p>
<p>It is a pain in the neck because for older students a lot of the information is not computerized. The NYC DOE has not even converted the information to PDF files, microfiche or any thing of the sort. Paper hand written transcripts.</p>
<p>It is also not unusual for students not to receive a diploma ( remember most cases are not in the media). A student who gets suspended at the end of the school year serves that suspension or any left over days at the beginning of the next school year ( especially if it is a superintendent suspension, which there has been a hearing</p>
<p>I’ve interviewed thousands of job candidates and hired hundreds for dozens of different companies and never once asked to see a copy of a high school diploma.(HR experience I referred to earlier was for a placement company). </p>
<p>I’ve also been to a LOT of graduations and seen plenty of “pranks”. Since most all of these graduations were at high schools where 90+% of students were headed off to college, I’d guess that most of the shenaningans were orchestrated by college-bound students. </p>
<p>I also can’t see how legally the district could revoke a student’s otherwise-earned diploma over anything. I’m wondering how many school districts put copies of the diploma in a student’s school record file? Any student who is 18 or over has a right to copies of school records, so if the diploma is there, that is a work-around.</p>
<p>Copies of the diploma not placed in the student file until the student is discharged as a graduate of the high school. Most of the diplomas are printed in advance. If something should happen when the student does not receive a diploma other than not coming to school on the last day to pick it up, the diplomas are shredded. Diplomas ate also printed in anticipation that students will complete graduation requirements in summer school. I had students who did not graduate in summer school( failed a class, did not show up for the regents exam. Student is a non-grad and diploma will be shredded. </p>
<p>Things work a lot differently at various colleges; I received my undergrad and all of my grad degrees a couple of months after graduation. I remember having to go back to school to sign for my bachelors. My masters was sent in the mail ~ 2 months after graduation. My daughter was given her degree at the ceremony as she walked across the stage.</p>
<p>15 years if HR experience at a fortune 500 company before working for the DOE. We requested plenty of diplomas and high school transcripts (especially if that was the highest level of education completed) as part of the hiring process. Once we made an offer, the offer was contingent on the veracity of the application.</p>
<p>Oh, yeah…COMPLETELY different ball game if you’re trying to get hired for a government job.</p>
<p>The VP I know who requests college transcripts is hiring economists and high level finance people. He is a VP and Chief Economist.</p>
<p>Anyone 18 years or older and out of high school for 6 months is eligible to earn a GED. The fact that the girl was valedictorian is a matter of very public record and transcripts of work completed should at a minimum be available via the Freedom of Information Act.</p>
<p>Sure it would be easier to write a letter of apology. But not everyone is willing to cave in to what amounts to blackmail, even if it is the path of least resistance.</p>
<p>I say praise to the principled, the unreasonable and the just plain ornery because they help keep those who wish to control all of us a little more in line. To quote George Bernard Shaw:</p>
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<p>Hiring managers/HR requesting transcripts to ascertain an applicant’s educational background makes much more sense than a diploma. One can see his/her entire academic record and graduation status at the very least. </p>
<p>Moreover, transcripts are printed on special watermarked paper and marked with the registrar’s seal if sent directly from their office as usually expected. Much harder to fake compared to sending a copy of one’s diploma. </p>
<p>Also, the diploma may not reflect the possibility some universities do reserve the right to revoke one’s graduation status after graduation if they find compelling evidence of serious student misconduct like cheating during the holder’s undergraduate career. </p>
<p>One example of this was a granddaughter of Walmart’s founder who ended up returning her USC diploma after graduation once it was revealed that she paid another student to do all her school work for her. </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-10-19-wal-mart-heiress_x.htm[/url]”>http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-10-19-wal-mart-heiress_x.htm</a></p>
<p>Although the university requested the diploma’s return, it was really a proforma exercise. If she refused, the diploma ends up being a useless piece of paper as if an employer wanted to verify her attendance at USC, a call to the admissions office or an examination of the requested transcript would have revealed her non-graduate status and unless some legal settlement deal was worked out…a mentioning/notation of her serious academic misconduct.</p>
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<p>Quoting GBS is indeed interesting:</p>
<p>“A lifetime of happiness! No man alive could bear it; it would be hell on earth.”
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“Hell is full of musical amateurs: music is the brandy of the damned.” </p>
<p>But then, from the same “Maxims for Revolutionists” quoted by LoremIpsum, there is GBS’ … Liberty also means responsibility. That is why most men dread it. </p>
<p>Yes, acting responsibly is sometimes expected from the best and brightest.</p>
<p>xiggi, for the most part, no one here is disputing that, including me. You’re right, she did something irresponsible. </p>
<p>All of us are fallible. The punishment needs to fit the crime though. Here, even you’ve said it doesn’t. Some of us don’t think she should cow-tow to authority in this case. You, reasonably, think that it’s generally not a good idea to burn bridges. I, and others, believe that the bigger principle in this case necessitates burning a bridge or two. In my (albeit sometimes not-so-open) mind, this is reasonable, too. </p>
<p>You’ll just have to believe me when I say I’m all about choosing your battles. This one seems worth the effort to me. I believe the principal is holding this student to a different standard, abusing his authority, acting vindicitively (WHY did he wait over two months to explain to the student that there was a problem?) and demeaning the fact that the diploma is about ACADEMIC acheivement. If this student had relented and traded an apology for her diploma, what would that have taught HIM? </p>
<p>Apologies should not be for sale.</p>
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<p>I have no reason to doubt you in this regard, as I also firmly believe the same. And, picking your battles has been my guiding light. Since I call the principal “Dumb” it should be obvious that I hardly thought that the principal was correct on all counts. I also believe that a principal and his valedictorian could have worked it out in a MUCH better (and private) manner. And, I remain steadfast in my opinion that NOTHING is ever gained by making similar matters public, let alone by calling it to the attention of the vultures aka the media. Once the egg is all over the face of the participants in this silly debate, it is hard to erase the lines drawn in the sand. </p>
<p>And, although some here have opined that a relationship with the higher-ups at a high school is just a step above entire futility, I could offer the examples of both my sister’s and mine. After moving to greener pastures (easy from the arid area we lived) both of us made efforts to collaborate with the school and continue to push advancement programs for the next classes. In a way, we did not want to see programs we had started during our years to gather dust or fall into oblivion. </p>
<p>Although the INTENT was not to maintain solid bridges in exchange of recommendations and support, the bonus is that it turned exactly that way. When needing references, especially some that could show CONTINUING involvement in your own community, both high schools were extremely helpful. Obviously, the references transcended the HS years and were complemented by similar references from the college years! </p>
<p>In so many words, we all have to make choices. As I wrote before, it is easy for a teenager to show a backbone and stand up in matters of principles. After all, at that age we all are invincible and smarter than anyone! It is easy to be a rebel; but it helps to have a REAL cause! In my book, a person who spend much effort to excel at a school made a mistake to leave her school on a sour note. </p>
<p>And, yes, it is all about picking your battles judiciously. :)</p>
<p>GFG–I didn’t say the word hell was part of the student culture ( although it is). I said the phrase she used in her speech was from a popular teen movie that is part of the teen culture. I don’t believe the f word nor the n word are acceptable in a public speech because they are considered universally offensive. The word hell, however is not. It might be considered a little bit “low life” but it is not a cuss word. Maybe this is a geographic issue that I just will not understand unless I visit OK. But I fear OK, will come kicking and screaming into the 21 st century whether they like it Or not.</p>
<p>Next thing we’ll be debating about the word crap!</p>
<p>What dad does not realize that it really does not have to do with the word hell. The school in good faith asked the student to deliver a commencement speech. The student accepted the offer and by her acceptance, agreed to the stipulations put forth by the school. The student agreed to do so, and then failed to live up to her agreement. If the school has any kind of honor code, she minimally has broken it. If her inspiration as she stated, comes from the movie twilight…</p>