Kid is STEM-focused 10th grader at highly competitive private school. UW gpa now about 94 (weighted about 99), though math and science UW is about 96-97, with Honors English in the 87 range. Always has been his weakest subject. Likely math major in college. Great math ECs so far. Excellent standardized test taker. School offers regular, honors, and AP English tracks for 11th graders. If aiming for ED at top LAC (like Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, Bowdoin, Pomona) or ED at top univ that offers it (ie, not HYPMS), will not taking AP English hurt him? Will be AP in everything else. Concerned about time commitment and struggling grade-wise in AP English.
Take the right English for him…he will also find the right college for him.
There’s not really a good answer to “Is it better to get a B in an AP or an A in honors.” My suggestion would be that he take the class he wants to take, without regard to how it will look to someone else.
My student chose not to take AP English and attends a top LAC. She does extremely well in English classes and writes “for fun”. She chose to instead take APs that she thought would be interesting instead of drudge work. We found that many schools she was looking at didn’t take AP English as a direct replacement for Freshman English anyway, instead every student has to take a several classes that are also considered “writing intensive”. Don’t take AP English just because you think it is expected.
My daughter did the same and also attended a top LAC. I like to think that her writing ability shone through on her essays, and that her SAT and subject test scores in English indicated that she had what it took to succeed in college, AP (or in her case IB) or not. My guess is that the smaller schools with their holistic approach to admissions won’t dismiss someone just because of one class choice, if everything else is in place and they can otherwise show proficiency in that particular area.
What may matter for college admissions is if that course choice affects whether the counselor will mark that he took the “most demanding” courses for the counselor recommendation.
I gotta believe SOMEONE takes the intro level English/composition courses at these schools. Every school has them. Who’s taking the classes if everyone is taking APs?
Anyway, I don’t think a potential STEM major should feel compelled to take AP English. At all.
Not everyone who takes AP English in high school scores high enough on the AP exam to be exempt from intro level English composition courses in college, if that is allowed by the college.
Thanks for input all. @ucbalumnus Good point. I’m not sure if what I’ve been told is accurate, but I believe that kid’s school does not check any box on the rigor issue because of how rigorous the entire curriculum is. Anyone heard of this practice?
And school has been highly successful for top schools. Regardless, kid’s going to do what right for him (likely not AP English) and it will all work out fine.
I certainly hope so. With so many voices saying not to take more than 3 AP classes at a time, I hope that a schedule with 3 APs is seen as the ‘most demanding’ even if the student could have taken another one or two. My own STEM kid is planning to take 3 APs next year (junior year), none of which is English.
Have you looked at AP Eng Lang? My STEM kid really liked it as it was more technical reading and writing persuasive or technical essays versus Eng Lit - which he would have hated. It got him out of first year English in college and showed his breadth. He did not take any AP history because of the time suck of those classes.
Same. I think she took AP English Lang in 11th, but she definitely didn’t take AP Lit in 12th.
She’s mathy/sciency and her HS transcript reflected that.
Neither of my kids took AP everything, just what hey were most interested in, and both got the “Most Rigorous” check by their GC.
My S took regular English because he wanted to do his own creative writing instead of AP English. He attended a top LAC.
It does depend on which 3 AP courses. Not all of them are the same difficulty or workload generally, or for a given student.
In our school AP Lang was tracked for 11th graders and AP Lit for 12th graders. Both my kids took honors English in 11th grade and English electives in 12th. (Not even honors - but they liked the idea of delving into a theme.) They both had sky high verbal SAT scores and loved to read, but hated English classes. The older one was a math guy - had the big three science APs,AP Calc (and beyond), AP Comp Sci, AP Econ, and APUSH. The younger one was interested in International Relations. He took 3 history APs, AP Calc BC, AP Bio, and AP Chem. Their school considered their schedules “most rigorous”. The older one got into Harvard, Carnegie Mellon (SCS), RPI and WPI. He was rejected by MIT and Caltech and was waitlisted by Harvey Mudd. Younger son got into U of Chicago, Vassar, Tufts and American and was rejected by Harvard, Brown and Georgetown. Older kid was in the top 2% of the class, younger one the top 6%. Big suburban high school of middling quality overall, but a decent sized cohort of high achieving kids.
Older son’s rejections could be due to not taking AP English, or just the vagaries of who is reading the applications. Younger son’s grades were not actually as good as his GPA implied, I never could figure out how the school arrived at the number they did, so we all were very happy with his results.
But the most important thing is that they both really enjoyed their senior years. My younger son in particular had great fun with some creative writing assignments that were given, and continued to take creative writing classes in college.
I know some people familiar with college admissions. Here’s the general advice: Students who are applying to the Top 25 schools should aim for 5-7 AP classes at most (no need for 10) with a focus on APs directed towards the student’s academic “theme”. For example, if the student is going to study chemistry in college, there is usually no need to take APUSH. Likewise, the English-themed student would probably be better off taking AP classes in the humanities instead of AP Physics or AP Computer Science. Taking 2-3 AP classes by the end of 12th grade would be advisable for anyone applying to a college ranked in the Top 25-50. At the top 50 schools, taking no AP classes will put the applicant at a severe disadvantage.
My kids attended a highly ranked college prep high school and there were kids taking a ton of APs all the time, thinking the more the better, more rigor. In reality, some cracked, some committed suicide, others overloaded on APs and ended up tanking their GPAs. Everyone was sleep-deprived and depressed. Depending on the student competition, there just isn’t enough time in the day to do so many APs and keep up the extracurriculars. If the student is taking very few APs he needs to show where the time went, like maybe he was traveling with a circus or whatever (!).
If your son is going to be a math or engineering major, he should be in BC Calc (if offered) in senior year.
Since his standardized scores are good, it will show that he has a grasp of the English language.
Make sure he starts his personal essay and other essays in the summer prior to senior year, at least have a rough draft for the big one. It’s stressful to go into senior year and have homework AND the college essays.
I personally know past college admissions directors of good colleges. In general, students who are applying to the Top 25 schools should aim for 5-7 AP classes at most (no need for 10) with a focus on APs directed towards the student’s academic “theme”. For example, if the student is going to study chemistry in college, there is usually no need to take APUSH. Likewise, the English-themed student would probably be better off taking AP classes in the humanities instead of AP Physics or AP Computer Science. At the top 50 schools, taking no AP classes will put the applicant at a severe disadvantage. Taking 2-3 AP classes by the end of 12th grade would be advisable for anyone applying to a college ranked in the Top 25-50."
He is a STEM major so no need to take AP English. Our high school is a highly ranked college prep school and there are the students who take too many APs, just for more rigor, not knowing that it’s unnecessary. And of course, they aren’t interested in them, just going through the motions. Some who overloaded had their GPAs suffer and ended up at lesser schools than their goals. Others end up dead from suicide or have breakdowns, but all are stressed and sleep-deprived. There just isn’t enough time in the day so sleep suffers.
Your son should finish in BC Calc if he is going to be a math major.
Be sure your son writes at least a rough draft of his college essay(s) during the summer prior to senior year. Working on it along with schoolwork in senior year is stressful.
One point to add is that if taking AP English is stressful and time-consuming it would interfere with other activities and interests. If you want to think about admissions (and I don’t think admissions should drive these decisions), chances are extracurriculars will be more important than taking that class and the class could limit commitment to EC’s or other interests.
As for the essay, we tried not to make a big deal about the essay and two out of three of my kids did them in December. I know a lot of kids do it in the summer but it really isn’t necessary and some kids need the deadline 
There are a lot of posts on this forum about conflict between parent and kid with the parent pushing for essay early on and it is not worth the cost to relationships.