<p>RyanMK, to say a school is weaker based on something they don’t offer is ludicrous. Williams and Amherst don’t offer engineering. So is WUSTL “better” than those? Silly, silly argument.</p>
<p>Bigdog, not protesting too much. I personally would pick WUSTL over Colgate. My kid applied to WUSTL. Colgate too preppy for my taste. But the suggestion that it is any significant way inferior was just wrong.</p>
<p>The huge difference in aid is a huge assumption. Don’t believe the poster has said that.</p>
<p>I’m sorry, but wustl is clearly better in the sense that it offers engineering, while Colgate does not. If a student came to you and asked, “I want to be an engineer, is wustl or Colgate better for that?” I certainly hope you wouldn’t claim that they’re the same. I’ll readily admit that Colgate is superior in whatever areas it offers something that washu does not.</p>
<p>If still not convinced, what about pre med? Both schools offer it, and I claim wustl is better than Colgate for that.</p>
<p>Ryanmk, your first point is tautologically true but meaningless. You’re better than that.</p>
<p>As for pre-med I’m betting there is no significant difference in med school admit rates and that pre-med at Colgate is reasonably comparable to WUSTL.</p>
<p>I was never arguing that it was anything other than tautologically true. Nevertheless, it still is true.</p>
<p>Secondly, I do believe there is a statistically significant difference in med school admit rates between wustl and colgate. The given percentages are .9 to .8, which appear significant over a large number of students.</p>
<p>RyanMK, you’re wearing me down. You’re going to take a stand behind trivial, but true statements that actually are false when situated in the context of your agenda of favoring one school over another in general.</p>
<p>And in your .9 vs .8 figures, did you account for the weeding out process at the two schools and whether WUSTL “manages” their numbers to produce an artificial med school rate percentage?</p>
<p>I love both schools, but neither I nor my kids attended either of them, so I “carry no brief” on behalf of either one.
That disavowal of any bias being stated, let me offer my opinion: your guidance counselor is off the mark on points 2 through 4. You will have to research class size, but frankly, I don’t think it should be an issue.
Wash U has become a huge brand name among people who know much about the top universities in the US. Plenty of employers recruit there. As a NYC law firm employer, I am fairly impressed seeing either school on an applicant’s resume, but to be honest, I am more impressed when I see Wash U than when I see Colgate.
That is not to say Colgate is not a great school. It absolutely is. And its campus is positively gorgeous. (I also love the Wash U campus.) But Colgate is in the middle of nowhere. And I mean nowhere, so you better love the environment.
On top of all this, if Wash U will cost materially less than Colgate because of the difference in aid, it is an easy call.
All that being said, if there is not a material difference in cost, I return to the fact that they are both great schools and at the end of the day you should go where you think you would be happiest.</p>
<p>I don’t see how my points are trivial, and false. You claim that wustl is in no way superior to colgate. I offer the example that for an engineering student, washul is far better than colgate. I can’t possibly see how that is not a case where wustl is superior, in at least one way, to colgate.</p>
<p>(Also, my “agenda” is not to prove that wustl is better overall - rather simply that wustl is better in some areas. I don’t see how that is biased at all)</p>
<p>My .9 to .8 figures were actually favorable towards colgate. Their website states that from year to year the rate fluctuates from 65 to 80 percent - I took the highest of that range. I have not seen any evidence that either school “weeds out” pre meds or “manages” the numbers any more than the other. Washu posts accepted/rejected for each med school application these past few years, and .9 seems entirely reasonable. Since both are top schools, I assumed the weed out rates were roughly equivalent.</p>
<p>I honestly don’t see what your problem is with admitting that some schools can be better than others at different things. If you seriously think that washu has not one single thing which is better than colgate, then I want to ask who is the one with the agenda?</p>
<p>RyanMK, this is my last try. I never said that Wash U doesn’t have any departments stronger than Colgate, or vice versa. The issue in the thread really is whether there is a substantial difference overall. I’ve already said I would give a marginal edge to Wash U overall, but it’s far closer than the tone in the thread was suggesting. Colgate in its own right in one of the finest schools in the country, and with a history that does exceed Wash U (a relatively new school). But your specific example, with all due respect, is almost autistic. You can’t keep saying Wash U engineering is “better” than Colgate’s when Colgate doesn’t have engineering! I am at a loss as to how you can’t see this. The pre-med example is better but you haven’t convinced me. When you say .9 seems perfectly reasonable is that a figure you’re guessing at??? Or did that come from hard data? And it is well known that Wash U weeds out heavily, in fact to the degree that concern has been expressed about majoring in biology or chemistry without med school intentions and suffering in courses where there is intent to seriously weed out.</p>
<p>Finalchild, forget about the history. That’s the only point you consistently bring up to say that colgate is better than wash u. Wash u is the better school now and that’s all that matters. Its better in engineering, business, pre-med, political science, and a lot of other stuff. The students at wash u performed better on standardized tests than at colgate. Wash u has a better reputation, and a better location. Even though Colgate is a liberal arts college, you still have to include majors such as engineering and business because those are some of the top majors in the country. So Colgate is more restrictive and one would only want to go there to study the humanities and arts, which is fine if thats what they intend to do. But honestly wash u is still better in many arts and humanities majors.</p>
<p>^^^^^This is why I compelled to post (when I actually could care less about Colgate and neither of my kids even applied there). “One would only want to go there to study the humanities and the arts…”??? Bosox, are you for real? And I NEVER said Colgate is better. </p>
<p>Bosox, is Wash U a better school than Williams, Amherst and Swarthmore too???</p>
<p>My D visited Colgate and decided not to apply due to logistics (is that a silly reason?).</p>
<p>She had to fly to Syracuse and then drive for an hour. </p>
<p>Also, regarding GC advice - my D’s top two are great. But GC was asking “why no ‘plug in the name’ school?” It just didn’t make sense to my D so she chose to ignore it.</p>
<p>People go to swarthmore to study liberal arts. I never said anything about being worse because its liberal arts, only more restrictive. So yeah my point is correct. And so what if thats the second most popular major. I dont care and that doesnt help ur point. Wash u is still better than colgate in pre med and sciences whether biological studies is their second most popular area or even the most popular. Wash u is better overall.</p>
<p>You obviously know nothing about top LACs…and what they do upon graduation…like go straight to Wall Street…and the top medical and law schools in the country.</p>
<p>Kennedy, not silly at all. Colgate is about as remote as a school can get. Beautiful campus but it defines “in the middle of nowhere”.</p>
<p>I have this argument with my D all the time…she tends to think her GC’s walk on water and I just don’t see it. Depending on the situation they don’t always know enough about your kid.</p>
<p>Of course people can do what they want but this Colgate vs WUSTL is getting silly. The OP seems to be long gone and never answered the financial situation at Colgate. If WUSTL is a cheaper option its a better choice.</p>
<p>I agree this is silly and I apologize for contributing. There is certainly an addictive aspect to the site and the issues raised.</p>
<p>Bosox, really? Do you think Wash U is superior to Swarthmore? Yes or No? Viewing LACs as “restrictive” is a very odd prism to be looking through in characterizing these schools. Some would call them foundational and the complete opposite of restrictive. Restrictive in my mind is going straight into an undergrad business school.</p>
<p>To repeat, I gave a marginal edge to Wash U, obviously that would be the choice unless a significant money advantage at Colgate. That said, the difference is small. Wash U is not on a different tier. Rankings-wise Colgate falls in between Wesleyan and Grinnell. If you really know your schools that is pretty fine company. The “middle of nowhere” thing is overrated unless you don’t want to live there. I guarantee you folks who hire people in NYC are very familiar with Colgate.</p>
<p>I think wash u and swarthmore are very even in terms of academic strength. When i say restrictive i am talking about major selection. Sure being in a liberal arts school will give you more variability of classes, but honestly that’s what high school is for- to help you figure out what you want to study in college. So yeah taking undergrad business is more restrictive in that your not taking classes in as many subjects as high school, but thats the point of college- to become extremely knowledgable in a specific field.</p>
<p>Also you are hypocritical. You keep saying that you give the marginal edge to wash u yet say that colgate is not inferior. Well saying wash u has the edge means that colgate is inferior.</p>
<p>And the middle of nowhere thing is extremely relevant. Having recruiters around you improves your chances for acquiring experience and a job.</p>
<p>finalchild, clearly you are from a LAC background and support them. Nothing wrong with that, great schools. But why do you go on non-LAC’s boards and have these battles? Go on LAC boards and argue with those awful national university people if they come there.</p>
<p>Middle of nowhere has to do with being stuck there for four years, not with recruiting. </p>
<p>And if you want the ranking angle WUSTL at #14 competing in a category with every Ivy, MIT, Stanford, Chicago, etc is a LOT more impressive than #18 in LAC’s where only three appear to be amazing.</p>