Once a Dynamo, the Tech Sector Is Slow to Hire (NYT)

<p>Jwxie,</p>

<p>Because it is a lie. There are plenty of highly skilled, great engineers, in all engineering branches. Additionally, there are thousands of slightly above average to good engineers in the US.</p>

<p>The US has more than enough engineers to function properly:</p>

<p>[Degrees</a> in engineering and engineering technologies conferred by degree- granting institutions, by level of degree and sex of student: Selected years, 1949-50 through 2007-08](<a href=“http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d09/tables/dt09_305.asp]Degrees”>Degrees in engineering and engineering technologies conferred by degree- granting institutions, by level of degree and sex of student: Selected years, 1949-50 through 2007-08)
[Graduate</a> enrollment in science and engineering programs in degree-granting institutions, by discipline division: Fall 1995 through fall 2007](<a href=“http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d09/tables/dt09_233.asp]Graduate”>Graduate enrollment in science and engineering programs in degree-granting institutions, by discipline division: Fall 1995 through fall 2007)</p>

<p>And at least one reputable source can’t put a finger on an “engineering shortage”:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.rand.org/pubs/issue_papers/2005/IP241.pdf[/url]”>http://www.rand.org/pubs/issue_papers/2005/IP241.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>The problem is that highly skilled engineers demand high salaries; unfortunately, many business people seem to think they have a right to pay low salaries for high skills (or they can simply sell you crap designed by foreign engineers).</p>

<p>I have my doubts as well about this package getting passed. </p>

<p>In any case, my point is the country won’t be able to function without future construction/rehabilitation work. It’s not a question of whether or not the industry will recover, but a question of when.</p>

<p>This is a shout out to Homer…</p>

<p>goto [Dice.com</a> - Job Search for Technology Professionals](<a href=“http://www.dice.com%5DDice.com”>http://www.dice.com)</p>

<p>type “database engineer” as the search term</p>

<p>…and read the postings until you get sleepy</p>

<p>So your whole argument, Enginox, is that there is increased competition?</p>

<p>You have got to be kidding. The end of the world has been near since the beginning of time. Give it a rest.</p>

<p>“If we are still in this position in 10 years, then we all might as well move to India because this country will crumble.”</p>

<p>You might need to move to India because that is where the jobs are headed. The 3 biggest Indian outsourcers (infosys, Tata, and Wipro) are set to hire 90,000 new workers. Ans since these companies feed off of outsourcing, this means fewer jobs for US tech workers.</p>

<p>[“We</a> are Hiring” says Indian IT - Career news](<a href=“"We are Hiring" says Indian IT | siliconindia”>"We are Hiring" says Indian IT | siliconindia)</p>

<p>please…if you guys are here solely to earn money, consider business…if only to debate, try polisci</p>

<p>here’s how every one of these posts go
“engineering jobs are hard to find” news article==> outsourcing debate==>EPIC FLAME WAR</p>

<p>I don’t see any flame war in this thread. On an engineering forum, like other forums, people are going to talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly.</p>

<p>I DO see an older thread being resurrected though, which is entirely unnecessary.</p>

<p>This thread was started barely over 1 month ago. That is not “old.” </p>

<p>And please let’s stay on topic and discuss issues brought up by the article.</p>

<p>i do feel this should be a discussion about how to overcome the bad job market, and not a big discussion about outsourcing</p>

<p>ok, fair enough. Althoug many would argue that the job market is the result of outsourcing. If there was no outsourcing, what woudl the unemployment rate be today? How many more bright students would pursue engineering and tech instead of accounting and finance? How many great dsicoveries and engineering accomplishments will society miss out on because those who woudl have made these scheivements decided it would be more profitable to go work at Goldman Sachs?</p>

<p>To answer your question, I have repeatedly urged anyone who is unemployed to try like heck to get a govt. job. If you don’t get an govt. engineering job, then take somethign low level and work your way up. I know for a fact that the military agencies are actively seeking engineers (eg: US Army Corps of Engineers). But many don’t want these jobs because of the low pay and the fact that you can get sent to dangerous places.</p>

<p>It was started over a month ago… it also ended over a month ago.</p>

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<p>C’mon. Ok I agree that overcoming the bad job market is impportant. But, outsourcing discussions are one of the main reasons I even visit this website. While I am not a huge fan of offshoring, I think offshoring is very pertinent to engineers.</p>

<p>Even worse than offshoring is the outflow of US tax money for grants used to fund foreign Ph.D.'s who these days inevitably return to their own countries and do not contribute a dime to the US economy. I think that far too few people even consider graduate school in the United States and many are not well prepared.</p>

<p>I don’t have an issue with immigrants (my parents were immigrants) but I think that the way graduate schools (especially at the lower tier but even at Harvard/MIT) are operating seems to indicate a problem with our system. And there are hundreds of expensive cash cow masters programs which mainly attract mediocre foreign students and build the wealth of already rich and prestigious schools (like USC and CMU). Some aspects of academia I feel are crazy and horribly unstable.</p>

<p>Wait, so you come here mainly to contribute to topics that are beating a dead horse? That is a little screwy.</p>

<p>And how exactly does charging for a Masters configure to the offshoring problem? I would love to hear your explanation. Those cash cow programs have tons of Americans in them too. It is the PhD where domestic students are underrepresented.</p>

<p>Also, just for the record, there isn’t a ton of tax money going to directly finance foreign PhDs.</p>

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<p>I had the same thought!</p>

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Just remember college education is indeed a business.</p>

<p>Hardly a dead horse. </p>

<p>The viewpoints of Boneh3ad and MaineLonghorn seem to be anchored in a pre-1990s period, when becoming an engineer (or scientist) was a very low-risk path towards securing stable employment.</p>

<p>Presently, the world economy is more integrated. Current and future engineers are and will face more competition from foreign engineers. I’m not only referring to situations where a job is created in the US and later on is off-shored to another country; I’m also referring to situations where a job that would have been created in the US is instead created in another country.</p>

<p>Does this mean engineering is no longer a stable path towards stable employment? No. Engineering will remain an excellent path towards excellent employment. However, individuals interested in pursuing engineering as a career must be mindful of market conditions and must become life-long, active learners.</p>

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<p>I spent a lot of time on KC Johnson’s Duke Lacrosse Blog. The New York
Times got it completely wrong and still won’t own up to their mistakes
on the case. Furthermore their stock price has fallen more than 80%
since 2002. All the news that’s fit to print?</p>

<p>Newspapers have been decimated and even the quality paper, the Wall
St Journal sometimes puts out garbage.</p>

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<p>Apple. Firing on all cylinders. $50 billion in cash. They can print
cash just by updating their products. Some of their products are one
or two years old and they could sell a bunch more by just putting in
modern components.</p>

<p>Google - blowout earnings report last night. They just added 1,500
new employees.</p>

<p>Amazon - they are hiring and growing their business.</p>

<p>Oracle.</p>

<p>IBM.</p>

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<p>Hundreds of RNs from Across the State Join UMass Memorial Medical Center Nurses for Picket and Rally to Protest Poor Staffing Conditions, Proposed Closure of Needed Beds and Services, Wage and Benefit Cuts</p>

<p>[Hundreds</a> of RNs from Across the State Join UMass Memorial Medical Center Nurses for Picket and Rally to Protest Poor Staffing Conditions, Proposed Closure of Needed Beds and Services, Wage and Benefit Cuts - KansasCity.com](<a href=“http://www.kansascity.com/2010/10/13/2310253/hundreds-of-rns-from-across-the.html]Hundreds”>http://www.kansascity.com/2010/10/13/2310253/hundreds-of-rns-from-across-the.html)</p>

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<p>My group is snowed under with work.</p>

<p>We are adding people in my building which isn’t that big. I’ve seen
three new engineers on my section of my floor this week. We’ve had
people leaving for new jobs recently and have to hire to maintain
staffing levels and to take on new projects. These are software
engineers and there is a shortage. Software developers may or may
not include software engineers.</p>

<p>I don’t personally know any software engineers that are unemployed
right now. I did a few years ago but they have since found work, in
some cases much better jobs than they had before. The unemployment
rate in my state is 5.7% and I’d guess that the unemployement rate
for software engineers is quite a bit lower than the state rate.</p>

<p>BTW, one of the new hires is an older guy - probably got in by
networking.</p>

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<p>A lot of grads do not know how to do this. In one of my son’s courses
(a senior course) only 20% of the students turned in the first
programming assignment. The kids are all bright enough to do the
programming but the assignment was poorly specified. Students would
have to do some research and digging to figure out what to do. I think
that many students expect good specs and straightforward assignments
but you seldom get that in the real world.</p>

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<p>Took me two minutes. But I’ve been doing this for 30 years.</p>

<p>Thanks for the link. I’ll send it to my son.</p>

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<p>The tech sector is innovating like crazy. Go work at one of the big
tech companies - you would be very busy.</p>

<p>That labor is getting more expensive.</p>

<p>[$USD</a> - SharpCharts Workbench - StockCharts.com](<a href=“StockCharts.com”>$USD | SharpCharts | StockCharts.com)</p>

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<p>Nobody? Really?</p>

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<p>There’s no fear of honest debate.</p>

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<p>Some of those jobs have already come back.</p>

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<p>Philips Exeter in NH, one of the best private schools in the country,
doesn’t require you to be a certified teacher to teach there.</p>

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<p>I see so many good people working in good engineering jobs and just
have to say that you’re full of it.</p>

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<p>I guess that you didn’t read the latest employment report.</p>

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<p>This has been the case for quite some time.</p>

<p>Thanks for providing current info, BCEagle, since I’m a dinosaur, lol. I don’t think boneh3ad is, though! </p>

<p>Guess what, Old Fogies do know a few things, and we have a lot more perspective than kids. As I’ve posted before, I had a rocky start in my career, too. 271 resumes to get my first job. Laid off several times. That’s why we started our own structural engineering firm, and work has been steady.</p>

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<p>Hasn’t it always been more profitable to be in finance than engineering?</p>