One-line desciptions for puzzled UK parent

<p>Hi - I wonder if anyone on this forum might be able to give me a steer.</p>

<p>My son is working on his applications for 1 January - eg Emory, Cornell, UPenn, U of Virginia, Northwestern and Michigan. </p>

<p>While the factual aspects - SAT scores, % takeup, size etc - seem straightforward, I have no feel for the character of a university and how, for example students at Emory might differ from those at, say, U of Virginia.</p>

<p>My son has been educated in the UK private sector (small class sizes), is open-minded, entrepreneurial and reached a national ranking in UK tennis. Enjoys politics but not blinkered. Subject - economics.</p>

<p>Any leads much appreciated!</p>

<p>The U of M is a very large and diverse school (around 30,000 undergrad and 10,000 grad students). There’s something for everyone. The state and the U, imo are progressive. Hope that gets the ball rolling.</p>

<p>Most of those schools are very similar in size and what they have to offer, except for Emory. D2 is also applying to many of those schools on your list. What is interesting is that your son didn’t consider applying early action to UVA or UM, which is non-binding. </p>

<p>Our older daughter graduated from Cornell this year with econ and math degrees. Cornell has 7 schools (A&S, Hotel, CAL, engineering, architecture…). Students are not restricted where they could take their courses. An economic major in A&S could take finance courses at Hotel, A&S or AEM (business school). It’s the case for a computer science major, he/she could take a CS course at A&S or enginering. It is also very diversed due to different type of students from those schools. Cornell has a very good career center, many major finance, consulting, engineering firms recruit on campus.</p>

<p>We have many parents on CC who would know more about NU, Penn, UM, or Emory. I would be happy to have kid go to any of those schools.</p>

<p>You might get more/better responses if you posted in the individual college forums. All of those schools should be large/well-known enough to get a fair amount of traffic. </p>

<p>There are also several very good web sites that can be used for comparative information, even of the more subjective/qualitative variety. I frequent petersons.com (for factual size/location/cost/SAT scores-type info) and princetonreview.com (for their rankings/lists). Any college ranking should be taken with a medium-to-large-sized grain of salt, but some of the personality of the school does come through. (E.g., UVA is #3 on the “Great Financial Aid” list; Emory is #9 on “Best Quality of Life”.)</p>

<p>On your son’s list, Cornell and Penn are Ivy League schools and come with their own panache. Michigan is very hot right now, particulary for business students. His list also covers a wide geographic range–climate is a factor for some kids.</p>

<p>I’d also recommend that as the decision gets closer and he narrows down his list, specific threads with titles like “Northwestern or Michigan?” get good responses from people with knowledge of both schools.</p>

<p>(And I feel that as an alum + living about 10 minutes away, I have to ask if your son has talked to the UVA tennis coach? Ranked second in the country last year.)</p>

<p>(Also, since your son is from a private school environment, has he considered applying to any of the smaller schools, including liberal arts colleges? Many many advantages to those.)</p>

<p>UKparent-</p>

<p>You are looking at great schools. UVA and Michigan are huge schools. Your son needs to decide if he would be happy at such large schools especially since he is coming from a private school. UVA, being a state school, has a very large percentage of students from Virginia. The number of states being represented may not be as diverse as let’s say Cornell. Michigan is a very sports oriented school if that would make a difference to your son.</p>

<p>Cornell is also a large school. I know many kids that are currently attending Cornell. They all love it. Social life is good. Academics of course are excellent. Cornell is in the snow belt of New York, so if your son does not like the cold and snow you should reconsider. </p>

<p>U Penn is a city school. That was something we needed to think about when we were looking at schools. My S really wanted a campus with grassy areas. He didn’t really want to be surrounded by the city. It is an excellent school. We didn’t visit so I can’t really comment on it too much.</p>

<p>Emory has a beautiful campus. The business school is ranked as one of the top schools in the country. Most kids are either in the business school or are premed. Weatehr is milder than the other schools mentioned. Social life is good. Atlanta is right there. There are malls, clubs, on campus fraternities.</p>

<p>You should go on the individual school forums and see what info you can get from them.
Good Luck to your son!</p>

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<p>Michigan is much larger than UVA; almost twice as large. UVA has about 14,000 undergraduates, which is about the same as Cornell. Also, over a third of UVA students are out-of-state. UVA is hugely popular nationally with OOS applicants. Every state is represented.</p>

<p>Michigan is also popular OOS, especially the east coast. When I attended I had friends from CA and HI, as well.</p>

<p>Thanks for all the responses - really helpful. If we get to the stage of having two to choose from, I’ll try out the x vs y formula for a post. The rankings guides sound useful.</p>

<p>To answer the question re early action, as someone new to the system I had not been aware of this non-binding option until too late…Re the UVA tennis coach, my son’s tour was fairly whistle-stop so unfortunately he did not have time for a session. </p>

<p>Back to digest the info - much appreciated. Second SATs test this Saturday!</p>

<p>I would strongly encourage Son to complete an application for a quality college that is not in the US Top 100 list. We have had two sons go through the process and there is definitely some odd stuff that can unfold. A student’s numbers may match, very well, with a college but he is still rejected – this happens even to tippy top students. </p>

<p>In this case your student doesn’t have a high school connection with any of the colleges. Some colleges have very strong connections with certain high schools and they know, for instance, that a student who graduates in the top 10% of the class is a really hard worker. </p>

<p>The college application process is tough on everyone – and many kids crowd their applications into the Top 100 schools and don’t think to consider the 3,900 other options available in the US (believe me, the difference between College #100 and #101 is nothing) Good luck!</p>

<p>I loved my four years in grad school at U.Va. I went to the same church as Kenneth Elzinga (famous economics teacher), and he was quite impressive when he spoke to one of my MBA classes. If your son is considering U.Va. for economics or politics, he might want to check out widely-available information on Kenneth Elzinga and Larry Sabato, each of whom is highly respected in his field.</p>

<p>Does your son plan to play varsity tennis in college? I noticed that all the colleges on his list are Division I (able to offer athletic scholarships) except Emory, which is Division III (and therefore not allowed to offer athletic scholarships). While this is not universally true, DIII colleges tend to be smaller and offer smaller class sizes, so if that is important to your son, he might want to consider more Division III colleges.</p>

<p>I don’t have information about undergraduate students at these colleges, but hope this is helpful information.</p>

<p>There are some great college guidebooks that talk about the character of the different campuses and the students. The one my Ds liked was out of Yale press - The Insider’s Guide to the Colleges. Gives a students-eye view of the pluses and minuses.</p>

<p>If I were you, I’d definitely pursue what options are open to your son based on his tennis skill. For the Ivies like Penn and Cornell, tennis may give him a much better shot at admission, which is tough to achieve even for the very best of American students. Internationals likely have an even tougher time. As noted already, the Ivies do not offer athletic scholarships, whereas the other universities may be able to do that for him. If he hasn’t done so already, have your son immediately contact the tennis coaches by e-mail at each of these schools, giving them an introduction to his tennis achievements and his academic level, including SAT scores. This might open some doors.</p>

<p>I assume your son is a very strong student, judging by the schools you have selected. I’m curious about why Harvard, Yale, and Princeton are not on his list also, given they are among the best universities in the USA and perceived by most people to better than any of the other schools on his list. Harvard is tops in economics, and so is Princeton. If your son is not considering these more highly-ranked schools because his SAT scores or high school record are slightly below their average stats, you should know that if recruited athletes are top notch and the coach wants them, they are sometimes admitted with slighter lower qualifications. I’d strongly recommend he look also at Stanford, if he’s already willing to fly the extra miles to Michigan or Illinois. Stanford is on the same academic level as Harvard, Yale and Princeton, and has the overall best athletic program in the entire country, not to mention fabulous weather. I don’t know where any of these schools stand as far as national ranking of their tennis programs, but the climate in Michigan, Cornell, and Northwestern are less-suited for tennis than that of UVA or Emory. Lots of cold, wind and snow.</p>

<p>All of the schools on his list are hard to get into, so I agree he needs to add some lower-ranked schools too unless he has “safety” schools lined up back home.</p>

<p>I see Cornell, Penn, and Northwestern as fundamentally very similar, albeit with important differences that distinguish them. What’s similar is that they are all first-rate private universities (although some individual schools at Cornell are government-supported), somewhat larger than their peers (i.e., 10,000 - 12,000 undergraduates, whereas most of the other elite private universities are more in the vicinity of 5,000-7,000). In general, they are seen as just shy of the very top institutions in the country, and they get very high-achieving, ambitious students, some of whom may have extra motivation because they feel disappointed at not having been chosen by one of the tiny number of schools at the highest prestige level. They all have a strong arts-and-sciences core, but all have multiple focused schools (Communications, Business, Nursing, Engineering, Journalism, etc., and at Cornell Agriculture) outside the mainstream academic core. Because of that, they have a lot of diversity among their students, and also their overall spirit tends to be more practical and career-focused than that of the other colleges with which they compete. All of them have strong fraternities and sororities that dominate social life to some extent, but that are not necessarily as narrow-minded as such institutions are elsewhere.</p>

<p>What’s different among them: Penn is smack in the middle of a largish city (walking distance from my office). Northwestern is on the edge of a very large city, part of its transportation grid. Cornell is in the middle of nowhere, a lovely college town on a large lake in a beautiful region known for summer cottages and vineyards. Cornell and Penn attract lots of students from the New York City area; Northwestern is more of the Midwest. Northwestern is part of a big-deal athletic conference; semi-professional college sports are a bigger deal there. Cornell has somewhat more economic diversity among its students (a lower percentage of very affluent students), and somewhat less geographic diversity (more weighted to the New York region).</p>

<p>Virginia is almost exactly like those colleges, too, and the same size, except that it is a public university in Virginia, so it has a lot more Virginians (many of whom come from the Washington, D.C., area, and so are not really southerners, but many of whom ARE really southerners, which is to say probably more conservative, more religious, and somewhat less cosmopolitan). Virginia (and Michigan, too) has a greater range of abilities among its students, and much more economic diversity than the private universities, but it has lots of first-rate students, and Virginia especially (more than Michigan) has an air of affluence and privilege. Virginia is in a lovely college town in the mountains, but feels less isolated than Cornell. </p>

<p>Michigan and Virginia are two of the strongest American public universities, especially Michigan, whose faculty is on a par with the very top universities in the world. Michigan is much larger than the other colleges you mention, with a lot more diversity of student abilities and economic circumstances. It is in a small, somewhat depressed city not far from Detroit, a much larger, very depressed city. Like Northwestern, it has a Midwestern character, although it attracts plenty of students from the Northeast (not so much, I think, from other regions). Michigan has a more democratic, less elite feel than the other colleges on your list, and will almost certainly be the most politically to the left.</p>

<p>College sports at Michigan and Virginia are very big-time, professional. (Michigan and Northwestern are in the same athletic league, but Michigan tends to care more about its teams winning.) Fraternities and sororities are important at both, although lots of students choose not to belong to them and live perfectly happy lives.</p>

<p>Emory is a smaller private university at the edge of Atlanta, a prosperous, cosmopolitan Southern city. It attracts a fairly national, mainly affluent student body; I think people in Georgia view it as a school for Northerners. In terms of general academic reputation, it is probably a quarter-step below the other colleges you mention, but not more than that. Very much a place full of talented, ambitious, achieving students, and part of the cohort of strong regional American private universities (along with Northwestern) that have benefited from the inability of the traditional Northeastern elite universities to satisfy demand. I have a young cousin who just graduated from there. He grew up in Paris, and went to high school at Exeter, an ultraprestigious, competitive boarding school; his father is an international lawyer, and his grandfather was a famous economist. He was deeply disappointed not to have been accepted at Harvard (where his father and grandfather went to college) or Stanford (his mother’s college and father’s law school). But he thoroughly enjoyed his time at Emory, learned a ton, and has been doing really exciting things since then (working with NGOs in Madagascar and Vienna). One of my partners’ granddaughters also just graduated from Emory, and has a very desirable job in finance in New York City. </p>

<p>I may be wrong, but I think of Emory as being less a collection of disparate schools and more focused on a traditional arts-and-sciences curriculum than any of the other colleges on your list. Sports and fraternities, etc., I think are less important at Emory than at any of the others as well.</p>

<p>Students at Penn, especially, and Emory, and Northwestern maybe to a little less extent, spend a lot of time off campus in the city, doing the things one does in a big city. At the other colleges, everything really revolves around the campus, and the university itself is by far the most important institution in the area and generates most of the excitement, jobs, and cultural life.</p>

<p>JHS has articulated these schools very nicely, though I will point out that Northwestern is a bit smaller than he believes (more in the neighborhood of 8,000 undergrads as opposed to 10,000 - 12,000). But aside from that rather trivial detail, there’s a lot of wisdom in his characterizations.</p>

<p>Since you are considering Michigan also consider Wisconsin (Madison)- app deadline Feb 1st. There is a new thread on the UW forum with a link to OOS tuition costs at all Big Ten public U’s that may interest you if you want to save a lot of money for a comparable education in a similar climate and region.</p>

<p>Your son (and you) should look at the websites for colleges he is interested in. The flavor of schools comes out in this. You can find out how easy or hard it is to find information, what is emphasized or not and so forth. The CC individual college websites are also worth reading, especially if you ask for a comparison of the school and one of its rivals. Check threads from a year or more in the past for comparisons (don’t ask me how to- I post a lot but haven’t mastered more than the basics).</p>

<p>Look at the general graduation courses for each U and the courses available and required for majors that interest him. Look at Greek importance (sororities and fraternities). At some schools many upperclassmen live off campus in convenient apartments- check the housing situation for both dorms and close to campus for later years. Remember that most students will be undecided or change their major once they start college. Therefore look beyond just the economics major to the whole university. You can do a Bing or Google maps arial view of the campuses and surrounding areas to get a picture of each campus.</p>

<p>JHS’s post has excellent info.</p>