<p>symphonymom, don't misinterpret my Yale comment. It was not directed at the BA composition program, or at the music undergrad department there in general, which is excellent. </p>
<p>My reference was to Yale as a financial "safety", even jokingly. The admissions bar is set extremely high for all, regardless of how impeccable grades and stats are.</p>
<p>Hi Violadad...totally agree with you! Yale and "safety" should definitely not be used in the same sentence (unless the conversation is about football) :)</p>
<p>Thanks for all the replies. I think the important thing to do, if he doesn't choose to apply to a few more 'safer' schools - financially, musically and/or academically - is to have that Plan B many of you speak about. A plan none of us will regret if that's his only choice.</p>
<p>As for dear Yale and the financial safety aspect of it (and certainly I never ever pretended it was a safety in any other way!) today we got their viewbook in the mail and it took my breath away how reasonable it would be to send a child of mine there. Not much more, if any, than going to a local community college and living at home! Wow - if only all colleges were that price, alot of our worries would be gone. Maybe I could even quit my 9-5 job and go back to writing novels...</p>
<p>I looked up Yale online. I had no idea they had such amazing financial aid policies. Cost of attendance is $49k, but their very liberal aid brings it much lower for many. The flip-side of this is that this will make Yale even more competitive to get in!</p>
<p>You can only go to one. I know kids who nailed it with one shot. Now if did not work out, the list would have had to have been expanded. We expanded S2's list in December when we realized that getting into the program he wanted was going to be tougher than anticipated. We added options that he did not want, just so he would have them if the other options did not pan out and if he changed his mind in April when everything came in. I know many kids who added additional schools to their lists when the initial answers came rolling in. There are a number of schools that have deadlines in the spring and rolling admissions. Also every year there are schools with room still left for students. Just bear in mind that it does cut out some options when you do things this way.</p>
<p>As a point of reference, programs with a performance based admit and a spring start are rare. Audition decisions are made within the fall audition timeframe.</p>
<p>There are a few, but not many that accept spring admits.</p>
<p>It can be an option for music academic disciplines.</p>
<p>cpt, that puts me in mind of one of my daughter's teachers. He applied to just one music school, Curtis, and would have been a meteorology major had he not been accepted there. He is now principal bass in a symphony orchestra in a city of about 200,000 people.</p>
<p>I'll stick in my 2 cents and agree with both tango14 and symphonymom. </p>
<p>Even for a very talented students, the auditions can seem like a crap shoot. I think the best advice is to make no assumptions about what any particular faculty will think of you on audition day; and therefore, make no assumptions about admission or music scholarship money anywhere. Four candidate schools that are all top notch seems very risky to me.</p>
<p>My D did the "lessons", the pre-audition visits, the pre-screening CDs and was told she that she was more than competitive at most of her target schools. In almost every case, however, the prof would not make a commitment in advance of the formal audition. I later learned that at most of the schools, the dean asks the profs not to commit in advance simply because there are so few slots and they have no idea in the early fall what the pool of applicants will look like in the spring.</p>
<p>Symphonymom said "USC is not a safety...it's composing department is among the best in the world (especially for film). UCLA is definitely not a safety". Boy is that true! I would not consider USC a safety for any music discipline nor would I consider UCLA a safety. </p>
<p>The USC string faculty is amazing and the competition for admission is fierce. According to symphonymom, the same is true for the composition department. UCLA is a much smaller program especially for strings but it is nicely priced for CA residents. For UCLA, however, it is important to point out that if you apply as a music major and you are rejected by the music department (during prescreening or the formal audition), you are also rejected by the university regardless of your GPA/test scores. UCLA does not have a BM major only a BA, but make no mistake - there are many, many talented applicants for very few spots. In the UC system, only UCSB and UCI have BM majors. Berkeley, UCLA, UCR, UCD, UCSD, etc only offer a BA.</p>
<p>D applied for Vocal Performance in 2003. She was coming out of Interlochen, and they give you a very realistic picture of how good you are. She applied to Indiana, Oberlin, CIM (and Case), BU, NEC (and Tufts), Rice and Julliard. She got an audition at Julliard but didn't get past the first round. She got in everywhere else (waitlisted at Tufts) and chose Rice (with merit money). I was insisting on a good academic fit as well as a good music fit.</p>
<p>One of her Interlochen classmates was applying for voice and composition and was EXTREMELY talented at both. She found that the composition admissions were very tough. She wound up at Indiana.</p>
<p>Our daughter was referred to earlier here: she's the one who is going to Harvard instead of conservatory, as a composer. </p>
<p>She got very good merit aid awards at 3 conservatories, but the tuition was still too high for us. On the other hand, the financial aid at some private colleges, including the Ivies, can be amazing. We weren't smart about this, but stumbled into it, to be honest.</p>
<p>Our state university has a BM, but composers need to also study an instrument, and her instrument (classical guitar) was not an option in their program. Some State U's give substantial merit aid, but overall, the private schools seem to cost much less than the state U if you get financial aid.</p>
<p>If you have a child who is a talented musician or composer, I would say, go ahead and apply to Ivies or anywhere else he or she likes. It seems that many schools want musicians and composers, to achieve that "interesting mix". Our daughter did not expect to get in at all, (I really emphasize, not at all) and her stats were not stellar or anything. She only sent Harvard one CD and score (as opposed to 4 at each conservatory). It might help to have some professionals perform compositions at some point, or win an award of some sort, but I don't really know. I don't really know if someone listened to the tape or not, either.</p>
<p>She chose Harvard because its program seemed closest to a conservatory, of all the colleges she looked at. It can be hard to find good composition/theory programs at colleges, period. At Harvard, it is possible that fully half of her classes will be in the music department, and there is opportunity for independent work and individual work with a professor. In some schools, the major is more like 1/4 of your courses. For the first year, she is doing composition study privately outside of Harvard, but that will change. She seems pleased with it all. Hopefully, this will not affect her chances if she wants to do an MM somewhere, but time will tell.</p>
<p>Yale undergrads do have private composition work from the start, either with a grad student or professor. I gather that the presence of the grad school has its pros and cons. She also looked at Bennington and Sarah Lawrence, for another type of path with composition.</p>
<p>Composers in college programs have to make their own opportunities, but that is not all that hard to do. You don't have the certain goal of a concert arranged for student work, the way conservatories do. But already she has connected with a group doing dance with local kids, who need composers for the choreography. And with another group composing for a violist and pianist from a good orchestra, known by her teacher. They can also be entrepreneurial and start their own groups, have their own concerts, ask musicians to play their music etc. Naturally, at a conservatory, the musicians available are amazing, but there are lots of good musicians elsewhere too.</p>
<p>I think 4 schools is fine. Our son did 4. The daughter who is a composer did 4 conservatories, 2 colleges.</p>
<p>One other thing, to the poster about Tufts: Tufts has a beautiful new music building, really beautiful. The music program is growing and developing. The composition seminar is for grads and undergrads together, which is great, and the teacher is amazing. More than half the student body at Tufts participates in music. The theory classes are not conservatory level, but for students who want to study something else, and have good music opportunities in a very warm environment, with some inspiring teachers, Tufts is great!</p>
<p>Just to add: Harvard offers no performance degree, and as such no performance faculty. They do not even aid students in finding teachers, so kids coming from out of town are totally on their own. Yes, there is NEC (and also Longy) but the student him/herself will have to contact the teacher and set up the lessons, and then, of course, pay for them privately. </p>
<p>I have no idea if this is the case at other Ivies, but I know that this is the case at Harvard, so non-performance majors who still want high level study on their instruments will need to be independent and resourceful in that respect.</p>
<p>My S, after thinking about advice given here, and elsewhere, has decided he's willing, even enthusiastic about applying to one more school - a safety school. A wild and crazy safety school - outside of anything expected of him. He's a National Merit Semi-Finalist - and most likely to be be a Finalist, so we've been getting lots of letters from unlikely sources such as Alabama and Oklahoma. And I've been looking at the various merit scholarships offered at various places. It turns out that when you look deeply into it there are interesting & exciting composers teaching all over the place - from major universities in major cities, to unlikely cities, and lesser-ranked colleges. I don't know whether the same could be said about the peer student composers or the students in the general classes, however, which is a worry.</p>
<p>So - right now my son is thinking for a safety he'd like to go somewhere beautiful (he's also a painter and loves landscape) - such as Montana or Utah - both of which have seem to have engaging composers teaching. What do you guys think of doing something so outside the box? (There's still Yale for grad school...) Do you think he would miss the stimulation from a more recognized institution? Do you guys have any wild and crazy ideas? (I brought up Appalachia State to him but he didn't bite on that one.) Btw. we live in the SF Bay Area to give you an idea of the culture shock in store for him. Thanks! I'm looking forward to your replies.</p>
<p>Nothing wrong in thinking outside the box, if the available faculty in composition is familiar and relevant within your son's chosen style(s).</p>
<p>I might be concerned with peer level of fellow comp students, and give thought to overall instrumental peer quality of the students that will perform his works. If he is at a high level, he might well be disappointed if he is confronted with a lesser standard.</p>
<p>Nothing wrong with outside the box...is Wisconsin too mainstream? GREAT university and worth checking out. We're from the Bay Area too and we've known kids to love it there....</p>
<p>How about University of Miami? Pretty nice scholarships for NMF's. I know nothing about their composition program, but they do have a full-fledged conservatory.</p>