OOS Chances for my new #1

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Virginia
1

<p>Hey, I recently got deferred by Cornell, so UVA has pretty much made its way to my top choice now, and I would really like to know if I have a chance:</p>

<p>State: New Jersey
Ethnicity: Mexican/White
High School: 134th in United States (about 10% of us get into Ivy Leagues/equivalent)
Major: Neuroscience
GPA (lower numbers explained later, but they still are here): 3.4 UW, 4.03 W, slight downward trend, but leap in Senior year, close to top 10% rank
SATs: 2070 superscored (680 CR, 720 M, 670 W), 2020 (1390) for highest single taking
ACT: 31
SAT 2: Biology: 720, Math I: 760, Lit: 620
AP: Psychology: 5, European History: 4, Macroeconomics: 4, Government: 4, Physics: 3, Calculus: 3, Language: 5</p>

<p>Courses (One of the heaviest loads available):
Freshman year: H English, H World History, H Algebra 2, H Bio, Latin 2, Intro to law, Comp Graphics
Sophomore: H English, H Am History, H Latin 3, H Analysis, H Chem, AP Psych
Junior: AP Language, AP Economics/Government, AP Physics, AP European History, AP Calculus, Latin 4
Senior: AP Literature, AP Latin (Literature), AP Environmental Science, AP Statistics, AP American History, Law Seminar, Ceramics (required art course)</p>

<p>EC:
-Key Club (Officer - in charge of website creation/management and organizing events)
-Latin Club (Officer - help with all Latin club projects)
-Tennis Team (Captain - Senior Year, our team is #6 in state)
-Table Tennis Club (Founder/President)
-Latin Honors Society (tutoring)
-National Latin Exam Gold Medalist for 5 straight years (got a free dictionary as a reward, awesome!)
-REPP (Ridge Encouragement for Political Participation)
-Participated in state-wide math contests (perfect scores on some, debating whether to mention or not)
-Science club all four years (biology, chem, physics state competitions - no real significant awards)
-Economics Club
-Served dinner at a retirement home (job/100 hours)
-Worked at the town pool (75 hours)
-Volunteered at the VA Hospital (320 hours)
-Volunteered at homeless shelter (160 hours)
-Various volunteer activities from Key Club outside of school, including Homeless Shelters, creating a prom dance for senior citizens, setting up various fundraisers (estimating about 120 hours)
-National AP Scholar with distinction</p>

<p>Letters: GC- amazing, me and her share a connection with our interests, she always talks about how much I have matured and think in a logical manner; Teachers- 1 awesome, 1 okay (my two favorite teachers chose randomly since so many students asked, of course I did not get chosen.)
Essay: Good (unique, to me at least, it has to do with my philosophy about life, and my central focus of helping elderly and it somehow relates to my major, not going to say it is one of the best essays ever written, but I still feel it is unique)
Hook: Umm...well, I am Mexican? I'm only partially, but the culture is prevalent in my life, and URMs for the win?
Issue: My parents got a divorce which affected my Sophomore and Junior gpa a lot, which devastated me for a while. My guidance counselor is explaining in her letter how the divorce hit me really hard economically/socially at first, but ultimately led to my more mature and logical approach to life (which it really did).</p>

<p>I am very frightened because the average SAT score for our school to UVA is 1465/1600 and average weighted gpa is 4.3. However, one of my friends who got accepted a couple years back is black and had a similar gpa, but lower SATs. I am hoping that my somewhat unusual circumstances and ECs can carry me. Thanks for any help!!!</p>

2

<p>Be aware that the Neuroscience program at UVa is a capped major; you have to apply during the second semester of your 2nd year to get in. They take about 20-30 students per class, meaning that there are 20-30 neuro majors for the class of 2009, 20-30 for the class of 2010, etc. etc. The neuro program's focuses heavily on research. If you're pre-med, they do not want you. </p>

<p>If you really, really want to do neuro, I would suggest applying to some other schools that offer the program (i.e. ucla, hopkins, dartmouth, etc.). And a quick question. Have you had any exposure to neuro or did you pick it because it looked good? By looking at your stats, there's nothing indicating that you have had decent exposure to the subject (by decent, I mean taking a class, doing research, etc.). If you haven't, I would also look at schools that are strong in the sciences overall. Not trying to be a pain, just concerned. :)</p>

3

<p>First too many kids believe the ethnicity is the way to get in. Little known fact...THE SUPREME COURT RULED AGAINST IT for admittance purposes in federally funded state universities...UMich...you don't get more points for being a minority compared to a caucasian.</p>

<p>Second, you have a good resume, but if Cornell deferred you, I would say UVA is def. on the bubble. UVA is the 2nd most prestigious and selective state university, after Berkely. The two go back and forth every yr on selectivity and rank by US News and World Report.</p>

<p>Third, do not rely on friends from other yrs that got in. Alot has happened in just 2-3 yrs.<br>
---Supreme Court ruling...which means he could have been prior to the UMich case.<br>
---More and more kids are applying to many universities driving the admission rates down for many state universities. 5 yrs ago most kids applied to @5 colleges, now the avg number is 10. The field is getting larger for selection, but they still have a limited number of seats they can fill. This is one reason deferrals and wait lists have become longer. It use to be a rarity to be deferred now it is common place for many universities. Some have even stopped waitlisting, but give a Spring acceptance.
----OOS is very very difficult to get in and it is that way for many reasons. Since they accept state funding the main reason for the college is for IS students, and they are typically told the % they can accept from OOS. Then they also to want have students from across the US. I would say if you said you were from MT you have a better shot than being from NJ. Approx 30% are OOS. So for 15K applicants, 5K acceptances only 1500 for 49 other states.</p>

<p>All of that being said...now onto the good news
C-Ville:</a> UVA - UVA follows Harvard and Princeton in canning early admissions</p>

<p>The article is old, but in essence since UVA started this yr with no EA, they have announced that they will have a higher admit rate, add in the fact that UVA has one of the highest OOS acceptances around with 30% (UMD is @23%, UNCCH is 17%) you should feel more confident.</p>

<p>I like to give both the bad and the good it is always expect the worse, but hope for the best.</p>

4

<p>Thanks a lot for both of your responses; I really appreciate the time and effort taken. In response to DB123, I am only putting my major down as neuroscience when it is available. For a school like UVA, I would likely apply as some type of biology major, as I did with Cornell, and plan to focus on it in the future or continue with whatever major I have. I apologize for the lack of an explanation in that section. In addition, I truly am interested in it; my psychology teacher and guidance counselor recommended it to me, and I began doing more research into it, and I find it absolutely phenomenal.</p>

<p>In response to bulletandpima, I did not make UVA my artificial #1 because my friend went there; I did it because I really adored the campus and lifestyle I noticed on the campus, and of course, the cheaper cost is always good for a family who is just beyond the financial aid category. In addition, I thought the Supreme Court case ruled against U of M and did not allow the white girl to gain admittance over the URM (I could very well be wrong, looking for more confirmation). Anyway, thanks a lot for the input.</p>

<p>Finally, as for news of my actual application, I got my December SAT scores back, and I got 650 CR, 750 M, and 790 W (12 essay), which is a -20, +30, +160 (+4 essay) improvement. This also improves my superscore to 680 CR, 750 M, and 790 W. I do not know how UVA looks at the writing section (I have been looking), but the score came as big a surprise to me as my lowered CR score.</p>

<p>Any more input is greatly appreciated. Thanks.</p>

5

<p>LOL, ignore my advice is to ignore USNWR rankings when making expectations. Different schools, regardless of their ranking made by some private for-profit attention ***** (that is essentially what the USNWR is), look for different things. Just to show you my point, I've gotten rejected/waitlisted by schools with lower USNWR rankings than my acceptances. So don't let the Cornell deferral (which after all, is at this point only a deferral) discourage you.</p>

6

<p>


</p>

<p>Eh db? The second statement is news to me....</p>

<p>I mean, what happens if you're both interested in academia and medicine? You can't be both passionately interested in pure research and be pre-med? I almost thought the two went hand in hand. ;) </p>

<p>Regarding exposure -- to me, undergrad is the <em>chance</em> where you get to be exposed. I mean, not every applicant has had a chance to go to TJ, etc. while many will probably have an Echols-like fascination for subjects that their high school would have woefully inadequately provided for; a fascination drawn from investigations in one's own time and such. Only a tiny tiny percent of high schools would even have the funds/manpower to have a "Neuroscience" or "Neurobiology" class, nor would everyone be as fortunate enough to live in an area that would offer the appropriate private intern/research opportunities, so to me it isn't worrying as long as the independent fascination / drive to learn is there. :) </p>

<p>Btw chronicfuture12, neuroscience is capped, but there are plenty of related interdisciplinary majors to look at; to me, cognitive science and neuroscience share a great deal of similar coursework; it's just that the former can cover my other interests such as CS and linguistics. :) </p>

<p>And remember, you should never select a school because you want to pursue this really specific major -- more often than not, students will change their major at least once over the course of their undergraduate career (be it refining this major, pursuing a totally new direction, etc.). Rather, you should look for schools that would fulfill a passion in various general areas. If you enroll here but don't get into the neuroscience program, there are a lot of other things you can do to fulfill the same intellectual curiosity. You could create your own related custom major if you want. </p>

<p>Have you visited the bowels of Gilmer Hall (and the connected chem building, and the chem engineering building?). You can clearly see that here there are some exciting opportunities to pursue in the direction of biochemistry (quite useful to neurobiology ;)), structural chemistry / materials science (perhaps useful to investigate the mechanics of microtubules?), cellular and microbiology ... OMG all these things that are in related disciplines! (It so happened that one time in a lab lecture for Chem 181L we got a speaker talking about chemistry and her neuro research...) And neuroscience by itself is interdisciplinary, so you could just as easily pull together some related coursework and get nearly the same experience / qualifications / etc. ;)</p>

<p>Just my two cents.</p>

7

<p>
[quote]
The major is designed for students with a strong interest in the biology of the nervous system and a desire to conduct original research with U.Va. neuroscientists (e.g., future graduate and combined MD/Ph.D. students). It is not meant for pre-professional students that have no (or little) interest in research; they would be better served by participating in activities that enhance their chances in getting into medical school.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Description</a> of Undergraduate Neuroscience at UVA</p>

<p>Most students want to get into an MD program; not a combined MD/PhD program. So, technically, gals is correct in that they want a specific type of pre-med student. Generally, they don't want plain old pre-med kids. And gals, a lot of pre-med students wouldn't be doing research if med schools hadn't indicated that they consider it important. Not all of us are as intrinsically motivated as you. :) If things work out, I'll hopefully be on an MD/PhD program in a couple of years. (and hopefully getting out of school before I'm 40.) So, I'm hoping that I'm accepted to the program as a pre-med student but I do have a back up plan if necessary. :)</p>

8

<p>Yes, but that doesn't rule out all pre-med students ... just the inferior intellectually dispassionate kinds who don't want to contribute back anything original to their intended field. :p</p>

<p>After all, they do say "future .... combined MD / PhD students". ;)</p>

9

<p>BAHAHA gals. i'm hoping i don't fall into your first category.</p>

10

<p>Believe it or not, I am actually still undecided on whether I want to be a doctor or just go into research. Anyway, actual chances of getting in will really be appreciated!</p>

11

<p>sorry chronic. I think you have a good chance. At this point, there's nothing you can do to change your application. Just perfect your essays one last time. Take a break for Christmas, read them the day after to proofread, and send them off. Good luck!</p>

12

<p>
[quote]
BAHAHA gals. i'm hoping i don't fall into your first category.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>No, of course not. :p </p>

<p>Do they intend for Neuroscience majors to be able declare their first year? I didn't even take AP Chem, but with the completion of 182/182L this semester, it seems I would be eligible to apply. I'm not sure yet though. It would have to replace cog sci or p-chem (both of which I am fond of) -- cog sci covers my other interests but neuroscience seems to have more exciting (advanced/hardcore) research opportunities. But maybe this should be for another thread.</p>

13

<p>nope, first years can't declare neuro. you have to wait until 2nd yr to apply.</p>

14

<p>And is 3rd year too late? (Just curious if I decide to apply 2nd year and don't make it.) Generally you could just take the eligible coursework and if the major application doesn't work out, just apply the coursework to a cogsci-related or bio-related major, right?</p>

15

<p>I'm pretty sure 3rd year is too late. You have to declare by second sem, 2nd yr. And the max is 25 students for the major, but there doesn't necessarily need to be 25 students. If you don't get in, then just apply to something related, as you said. Or, you could just make your own major and have it be ridiculously similar to the neuro major and just call it something different. ;)</p>

16

<p>Haha, I had been thinking of something like that too in my advice to the OP. (In fact, I was thinking of doing a custom major when I came in, before abandoning it realising that there was another major ridiculously similar to what I wanted.) </p>

<p>The thing is, the benefit of the Neuroscience major -- why I would want to declare it despite its smaller scope compared to cogsci -- seems to be the chance to do significant and more impressive research, and more significant collaboration with people at the grad-level or higher. I'm not sure if it would be as easy to replicate that with a custom major (though you would get a degree of attention nevertheless).</p>

17

<p>i think if you know the right people, you'll find a way to do great research. :) start making connections, get grants, and you'll be set.</p>

<p>
[quote]
more significant collaboration with people at the grad-level or higher.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I'm shuddering. The grad students i've met for neuro at UVa are complete nincompoops. Then again, I've only met a few but those few made me completely rethink applying to the neuro major. I even thought about transferring. (shocked?)</p>