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<p>Some OOS public schools are not that expensive. In the region, there are Minnesota, Iowa State, Nebraska, and Missouri. Elsewhere, there are NCSU, Virginia Tech, the SUNYs, and the Cal Polys.</p>
<p>Poetgrl, I think you are exactly right – Illinois doesn’t offer a second public option that’s of the same quality as Michigan St (or Iowa St, or Purdue). Because of that, many students leave because there aren’t enough spots at UIUC. UIC and ISU fill a niche and hopefully the perceived quality will improve.</p>
<p>nugraddad, I do agree there are some short-sighted legislators in IL. Sticker (tuition, room/board) at UIUC is around $30K depending on major and at Northwestern around $50K. If your kids were able to get a Northwestern education for less than $30K they have done really well!</p>
<p>mom2collegekids - I recognize you are a big Alabama booster - and I have indeed mentioned Alabama to smart kids in this area whom I knew could potentially benefit from the scholarship offerings. But I’m a little confused as to why it’s so important to you to show that Alabama is a really big / popular choice for Chicagoland hs seniors, when bclinton’s data suggests that it’s not all that dominant of an alternative.</p>
<p>Someone just posted a link to data about exactly where Illinois college freshman attend college…</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1426047-where-do-il-freshman-go.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1426047-where-do-il-freshman-go.html</a></p>
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<p>“Perceived” quality is the key. There is no evidence that Michigan State provides a better education than ISU or UIC.</p>
<p>They do have a better football team - that I’ll concede.</p>
<p>First thought that came to mind when I started reading this thread- Cornfields. </p>
<p>Comparisons of UIUC to UW in an above post- disagree with them being similar socially. </p>
<p>Madison is an entirely different city and college town than Champagne-Urbana. Liberal, lake, hills, student body. So much closer to the greater Chicago area. Academics may be similar- better at one in some things, the other in other things for each of the two. But very different atmospheres.</p>
<p>UIUC also is far more Greek dominated than UW.</p>
<p>As an IL senior, I have a decent perspective on this. Many of my classmates who are more than qualified for UofI are instead choosing to go oos. I think the main reason is likely that UofI is expensive and offers few scholarships. It is often cheaper to go to minnesota, iowa, or mizzou than UofI. Also many people just want to get out of state and not be in the boring corntown of u-c.</p>
<p>random joe - Thanks - It turned out to be like the old Smith Barney add - “It’s not what you earn - it’s what you keep”. It was like that with the Fin Aid Package. NU is obviously more money to attend - but NU offered much more in grants, which made it cheaper for the kids to attend NU than UIUC. But it’s not supposed to be that way…</p>
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<p>Bit of a misconception - Honors students only take 8 honors classes IIRC. 80% of their undergrad will be in the regular classes for everybody.</p>
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<p>Where do you get those numbers? That’s amazingly small for Michigan, only about 86 a year. I don’t have anything disputing that, but my intuition says that can’t possibly be right.</p>
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<p>According to google maps, Madison to Chicago is 147 miles or 2 hrs 33 minutes driving time. Champaign to Chicago is 137 miles or 2 hours 13 minutes driving time. Certainly there are some parts of Chicago’s north side and northwest suburbs that are closer to Madison, but it’s plainly incorrect to make the blanket statement that Madison is “so much closer to the greater Chicago area.”</p>
<p>I think that wis75 meant that Madison was closer to the Chicago area in terms of lifestyle and atmosphere, which I agree with.</p>
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<p>Figures are from U.S. Dept of Education. Sorry if I wasn’t clear, the “totals” are totaling the numbers above, i.e., its “total freshmen.” Even so, the number is extremely small. Not many Michiganders go to OOS public flagships A few second-rung OOS publics attract more from Michigan:</p>
<p>U Toledo 327
Bowling Green State U 234
Miami U (OH) 98
Ball State 40</p>
<p>But it appears to fall off substantially from there.</p>
<p>You can check for yourself at:</p>
<p>[Where</a> Does Your Freshman Class Come From? - Facts & Figures - The Chronicle of Higher Education](<a href=“http://chronicle.com/article/Interactive-Freshman-Class/129547#id=174233]Where”>http://chronicle.com/article/Interactive-Freshman-Class/129547#id=174233)</p>
<p>I believe the numbers. My oldest and 2nd went out of state but it’s rare…rare if you look at their high school graduating classes and the $ was right for them (less than UofM and State for us and they both wanted less than 5,000 students). There are not many compelling reasons to leave the state when you have two Big 10 schools in one state. Michigan State excels at it’s educational majors not available at Michigan and Michigan gets it’s share at it’s 4-5 “schools.” Engineers have many options with, of course, UofM, being the flagship engineering program. State and UofM meet need for in-state students. What’s not to like. I’m pretty much prodding my last to attend in-state since he wants engineering and there’s no compelling reason for him to leave the state unless one of his other out of Michigan engineering schools ponies up alot of money.</p>
<p>I would say the vast majority of UW students from Illinois/Chicagoland come from the northern and western sububs of Chicago. For them UW seems closer.</p>
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<p>For them UW is closer, in terms of time. Getting across metro Chicago is a nightmare with traffic congestion at almost any hour.</p>
<p>OOS total cost at Minnesota is comparable to IS at UIUC.</p>
<p>Regarding the thread title, I’m surprised. UIUC is good but very costly for OOS as well.</p>
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<p>Someone mentioned upthread that many of the newly enrolled OOS students are internationals, especially from China. I haven’t seen data to confirm that, but that would make sense to me. UIUC is very strong in engineering, physics, etc, fields for which there’s strong demand in China. I don’t think it’s suddenly become a glamor destination for applicants from neighboring states.</p>
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<p>I’m not sure I have a point. I’m just trying to figure out the dynamics: why do some states become huge exporters of college students, while others export very few?</p>
<p>In comparing Michigan to Illinois, sure, Michigan State certainly is a huge factor. Thousands of Michiganders who either aren’t accepted at, or for whatever reason just don’t like the University of Michigan have a pretty high-quality, high-visibility public in-state alternative. The same is true in Virginia, another state that keeps most students in-state; there, students have William & Mary and VaTech as alternatives to UVA. Same, to some extent, in North Carolina, where NC State is a plausible alternative to UNC-Chapel Hill.</p>
<p>But I think more than that is going on here. It’s not just those who don’t get into UIUC who are leaving the state. I also think there are a lot of people who could be admitted to U of I who either don’t bother to apply, or apply and end up choosing another school. As a result, U of I isn’t attracting as strong a student body as it might, and that in turn hinders its reputation with top students coming out of HS, in a vicious circle.</p>
<p>Look, there’s no reason why Illinois, with a population 1/3 larger than Michigan’s, a higher per capita income, and a lower statewide poverty rate, shouldn’t be able to create and maintain a public flagship university at least on a par with the University of Michigan–if not surpass it. Yet by any measure, it doesn’t. Why? Well, I think it’s losing not only the students who aren’t admitted, but a substantial fraction of the high-stats kids who are, or could be, admitted. Certainly the anecdotes related on this thread support that. But so do the data.</p>
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<li><p>Illinois produces about 17% more HS graduates than Michigan per year (not sure what demographic differences reduce a 33% population margin to 17% HS graduate margin, but whatever). Yet the University of Michigan draws nearly 40% more applicants per year (39,584 in 2011, versus 28,751 at U of I). Undoubtedly, many of the Michigan applicants are OOS, but I’d wager, based on ultimate stats on who ends up where, that Michigan also draws applications from a higher percentage of the state’s highest-stats students.</p></li>
<li><p>Out of its larger applicant pool, Michigan has a smaller entering class to fill–6,236 v. 7,255 at Illinois. That difference is roughly the same as the difference in HS grads in the state, but given the sharp divergence in the size of the applicant pools, U of I’s admit rate is much higher: 67.6%, v. 40.6% at Michigan. This also affects the perceived desirability of the school in the eyes of top-shelf potential applicants.</p></li>
<li><p>Because it is able to be more selective, Michigan enrolls a freshman class with stronger stats. Middle 50% ACT scores at Michigan are 28-32; at UIUC, 26-31. That’s not a trivial difference, and it further enhances Michigan’s appeal and (in relative terms) diminishes U of I’s.</p></li>
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<p>Bottom line, I think the University of Michigan captures a larger fraction of the top-stats applicants in the state; relatively few of them leave for OOS public or private alternatives. The University of Illinois has a harder time competing against OOS elite private schools (Illinois sends about 2.3 times as many students to Ivies as Michigan does), in-state and regional elite private schools (Illinois sends about 5 times as many students to the University of Chicago, Northwestern, WUSTL, and Notre Dame as Michigan does), and OOS publics (like Michigan) that are perceived by at least some fraction of Illinois HS grads to be superior alternatives to their own in-state flagship. And schools like Wisconsin, perceived to be at least on a par with U of I overall, better in some fields, and for some students more attractive for social, cultural, or other “fit” reasons, also do well in the competition.</p>
<p>Bottom line, then, Illinois is being chopped off both at the top, and from below, much to its detriment. It could be one of the top public institutions; instead, it’s a bit of an also-ran, stronger than most, to be sure, but falling well short of its potential. And because a lot of sharp students in the state see it that way, it becomes a self-perpetuating fate.</p>