OOS students in Wisconsin universities may have trouble voting

Parents Forum
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<p>So what? While those out-of-state students are in Wisconsin attending school, the majority of their time is spent in Wisconsin. For all intents and purposes, they are living in Wisconsin more than they are living in their “home” state, usually for up to four years. It’s very possible that they have more of a vested interest in what is happening politically in their immediate surroundings (Wisconsin) than they do back in their “home” state. As long as they want to declare themselves a legal resident of Wisconsin (and fulfill the obligations of a Wisconsin resident according to Wisconsin law), the Supreme Court has said they have that right. If after graduation they permanently leave Wisconsin, they will need to change their state of legal residence.</p>

<p>In Maine, part of the obligations of becoming a legal resident of the state is to trade your old (out-of -state) driver’s license for a Maine driver’s license, and to register your car that you have in Maine (if you have one) as a Maine car. If an out-of-state student that comes to school in Maine wants to make Maine their new legal residence in order to vote in Maine, fine, but you need to do the things that every new resident is legally required to do.</p>

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<p>The reason student IDs won’t work is voter ID law requires the ID to have a signature. Most student IDs do not. If voter ID becomes a permanent part of the landscape perhaps universities will retool their IDs. For now UW-Madison is operating on emergency basis, issuing students a special extra ID that satisfies the voter ID requirements. I imagine most library cards don’t have photos or embedded signatures. But then, come to think of it, passports don’t have embedded signatures either. You sign it when it comes in the mail. But one submits several documents to get the passport, so perhaps that makes them acceptable. The reasoning behind all of this is rather convoluted, as it must be, since the true purpose is disenfranchisement.</p>

<p>The state ID cards used to have a fee. Now with voter ID they dropped the fee. But getting one is still a hassle. The DMV hours are either 8:30-4:45 M-F in larger cities, or 7:00-5:00 2 weekdays in small towns. No Saturdays or evenings. One has to schedule a couple of hours time to get one because people going in for an ID stand in the same long lines as people there for driver tests etc. It can be something of a zoo in the DMV. There are many people who carefully husband any time off work because every time they miss they lose money, and because the employer has a limited tolerance for time taken off. A couple of hours at the DMV is a big deal to them. IF they even have easy transportation there.</p>

<p>To get a birth certificate takes some weeks if you live in a different state than where you were born. And money. No biggie to some people, but in my birth state it’s $21 and Michigan charges $34. There are people for whom that $34 is a hardship.</p>

<p>To vote absentee, one needs to mail a request to the city clerk or go there in person. There is a special form to download and fill out. It may be possible to bypass that and send a letter that contains all the necessary info instead. But one now has to include a photocopy of acceptable ID with the request. Suppose you do have an ID, but no photocopier. at home. You have to make a trip somewhere and pay money for a copy. If you live in the middle of a big city or work in an office, that seems like nothing. But if you are in a rural area without a car, this adds a whole layer of hassle to the process. And if you don’t have an ID, well it becomes a real burden. </p>

<p>Many things that we take for granted like cars, computers, photocopiers, money, free time, and so forth are not standard in everyone’s life, particularly the elderly, poor, and 18 year-olds.</p>

<p>Imagine, that people who already sent in their absentee ballots a couple of weeks ago before these new restrictions now have to get a copy of their ID to mail in for that vote to count. It’s insane. </p>

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<p>A Michigan resident attending an OOS college (in this case, Wisconsin), is facing a [financial] ‘hardship’? Seriously? </p>

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<p>Yes, and of course there is very little communication on any of this. How would someone even know what was going on if not closely following Wisconsin news from wherever they live?</p>

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<p>This has been a big issue in various college towns when it comes to local elections where the student vote can be a more major factor than in statewide races. I can see both sides in those cases as the locals usually get stuck paying the LT bills while the students move on after 4 years. It is a big issue in Lynchburg, VA where the growing LU population has become active i local politics. The locals are not amused. OTOH in Madison the current mayor is a former OOS student activist who stayed and one of his major opponents will likely be a younger version of the mayor. But more students tend to stay in town after graduation from UW as their economy is booming.</p>

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<p>" If an out-of-state student that comes to school in Maine wants to make Maine their new legal residence in order to vote in Maine, fine, but you need to do the things that every new resident is legally required to do."</p>

<p>That is not true. My son goes to school in Maine and is registered to vote in Maine. He has a NYS drivers license and his car is registered in NY. </p>

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<p>Yes, it is true. If your son is doing as you say, he is in violation of Maine law.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.maine.gov/sos/cec/elec/resident.htm”>http://www.maine.gov/sos/cec/elec/resident.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>From the above link:</p>

<p>*Consequences of Declaring Your Voting Residence (by Registering to Vote) in Maine</p>

<p>You should be aware that if you register to vote in Maine, you will be deemed to have declared residency in Maine, which may have consequences for compliance with other Maine laws, including the motor vehicle laws and tax laws. If you drive a car in Maine, you are required to obtain a Maine driver’s license within thirty days of establishing residency here. Driving without a Maine license more than ninety days after you have established residency in the state is a crime under Maine law. If you are a resident of Maine and own a vehicle here, state law also requires you to register that vehicle in Maine within thirty days of establishing residency. By declaring Maine as your voting residence, you may be treated as a resident of Maine for income tax purposes and be subject to Maine income tax.*</p>

<p>Further:</p>

<p>Students. If you are a student, you have the right to register in the municipality in Maine where you attend school, provided you have established a voting residence there as defined in Maine’s election laws and explained above. You can establish a voting residence at your Maine school address if you have a present intention to remain at that address for the time being, whether that residence is a dorm, apartment, house or even a hotel. Maine law expressly provides that you will not gain or lose residency solely because of your presence in or absence from the state while attending school, and this provision may not be interpreted “to prevent a student at any institution of learning from qualifying as a voter” in the town “where the student resides while attending” that school. In other words, as a student, you must meet the same residency requirements as all other potential voters. You must first determine where you have established residency and then register to vote there. If you pay “out-of-state tuition” as a student at a Maine college or university, that does not preclude you from establishing residency in Maine for voting purposes. If you have established residency in another municipality or state, you may vote by absentee ballot in that state.</p>

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<p>“Yes, it is true. If your son is doing as you say, he is in violation of Maine law.”</p>

<p>Well, all I can tell you is that he has been voting in Maine since 2012 and he has neither a Maine license nor is his car registered in Maine. </p>

<p>He does pay taxes in Maine on the money he earns from his on campus job. </p>

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<p>I don’t doubt it. I’m sure lots of other students in Maine who came from out-of-state are doing the same, and they are all violating the law (note also that it’s a criminal, and not a civil, violation). Either the town/city registration clerk that handled his voter registration failed to inform your son of his obligations, or your son has ignored the requirements of the law.</p>

<p>Those who want the benefits of Maine residency (like getting to help choose the state’s elected officials and determine the state’s laws) also need to share in the burdens (like paying excise tax when registering a car and paying for a driver’s license).</p>

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<p>Even a non-resident with Maine-earned income will be liable for Maine income tax. Your son probably has income tax withholding for that job, which would make it difficult to avoid Maine income taxes entirely. Maybe the lesson here is that Maine Revenue Services does a better job of enforcing compliance than the Maine Secretary of State’s office.</p>

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<p>Here’s a timely story about a Wisconsin voter’s potential disenfranchisement.</p>

<p><a href=“Wisconsin's new voter ID law could keep me from voting at age 87 | Ruthelle Frank | The Guardian”>http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/24/wisconsin-new-voter-id-law-woman-denied-right-87&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Indeed. </p>

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<p>" I don’t doubt it. I’m sure lots of other students in Maine who came from out-of-state are doing the same, and they are all violating the law (note also that it’s a criminal, and not a civil, violation). Either the town/city registration clerk that handled his voter registration failed to inform your son of his obligations, or your son has ignored the requirements of the law."</p>

<p>Well, I did a little gooling and it seems that all came about when the R SoS in Maine sent threatening letters to several hundred students whose names were given to him by the Maine GOP that they were in violation of the law and as such were committing voter fraud. Some students were scared enough that they withdrew their Maine voter registration while others were told by the ACLU to not unregister (given that the SCOTUS ruled students, can indeed, vote where they go to college.) Nothing came of that I have seen regarding the students who didn’t cancel their registration and I could find nothing regarding this requirement after the 2011 threats to the students. </p>

<p>Unless and until my son is charged with violating Maine law, he will continue to vote there while a student. If he is charged or threatened with charges, I will direct him to contact the ACLU. </p>

<p>angordailynews.com/2011/10/04/politics/state-to-students-register-your-car-in-maine-or-dont-vote-here/</p>

<p>MODERATOR’S NOTE: Links to blogs are not permitted. I deleted the one in this post.</p>

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<p>Maine cannot deny the students in question the right to vote. But it is common for states to require anyone (including students) who moves to those states to live there for more than a short time to get local driver’s licenses if they want to drive. The same for car registration if a car is moved into the state.</p>

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<p>Look, I’m all in favor of allowing students to become legal residents of Maine and vote in our state’s elections, if they so choose, as long as they comply with all the requirements that any other person who moves to Maine and wants to become a resident has to comply with. That’s all. (I also am strongly against voter ID laws and I voted to repeal the Republican sponsored law that would have eliminated same-day registration in Maine.)</p>

<p>Yes, SCOTUS long ago ruled that students can register to vote where they go to college. I have absolutely no argument with that. But the court most definitely did not say or even imply that students could do so without fulfilling the other requirements of state residency. If your son is prosecuted for failing to get a Maine driver’s license and failing to register his car in Maine, on what grounds is the ACLU going to come to his defense? What civil liberty would the state be violating in such a prosecution?</p>

<p>The flap that your links cover was a pretty big deal here in Maine for a few weeks. Yes, it started with a Republican attempt to cut back on student voting, presumably because the state Republican party figured that most students would be voting Democratic. The intent was pretty transparent. But the SOS’s letter to a number of college students simply informed them of the laws (which have been on the books for years), and instructed them how they could get in compliance if they weren’t currently: get a Maine driver’s license and register your car in Maine, or change your voter registration to another state (presumably the state where you have a license or your car is registered).</p>

<p>Why are your son and his college buddies special? Why do they get to ignore the law, that’s applied equally to every resident, that says if you want to be a legal resident of Maine you need to get a Maine driver’s license (if you want to drive) and register your car in Maine (if you have a car in the state)? Why?</p>

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<p>“If your son is prosecuted for failing to get a Maine driver’s license and failing to register his car in Maine, on what grounds is the ACLU going to come to his defense? What civil liberty would the state be violating in such a prosecution?”</p>

<p>"Why are your son and his college buddies special? Why do they get to ignore the law, that’s applied equally to every resident, that says if you want to be a legal resident of Maine you need to get a Maine driver’s license (if you want to drive) and register your car in Maine (if you have a car in the state)? Why? "</p>

<p>^Discrimination. </p>

<p>What if the student in question is from New York City, has no driver’s license and no car? They can and should be able to vote in Maine. There cannot be a requirement that only those people who have Maine driver’s licenses and vehicles registered in Maine can be eligible to vote. Nor can it be that an OOS student who has neither of those things can vote while an OOS with an OOS driver’s license and OOS vehicle registration is denied the right to vote.</p>

<p>I don’t think I am going out on a limb but I would put money on it that not one OOS student who votes in Maine has been charged with violating Maine law. </p>

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<p>Then they are good to go. But if, while claiming Maine residency, they want to buy a car in Maine or drive, they must get a Maine driver’s license and register the car in Maine.</p>

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<p>They can, and they do! Yes, there can be a requirement that if you want to have a driver’s license at the same time you want to be a legal resident of Maine, that license must be issued by the state of Maine. And if you want to own a car in Maine at the same time you want to be a legal resident of Maine, that car must be registered in Maine.</p>

<p>There is no “discrimination.” All Maine residents are treated the same - if you want a driver’s license, it must be a Maine license. If you want to own a car in Maine, it must be registered in Maine. This is common practice across the country.</p>

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<p>Don’t confuse being out-of-state for public college tuition purposes with being a non-resident. They are not the same thing. A legal resident of Maine could very well be denied in-state tuition benefits, depending on the circumstances. This is no different than probably every other state. And an “OOS with an OOS driver’s license and OOS vehicle registration” is not being denied the right to vote - they are being asked to comply with the state’s residency laws if they want to be a resident of Maine and vote here, the same as any other resident of the state.</p>

<p>You do understand that in order to vote in a state, you need to be a legal resident of that state, right? And that a state can make laws, applied equally to all of its residents (no discrimination, see?), that set out the residency requirements?</p>

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<p>Why, here’s another case where someone actually did vote in two states.</p>

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<a href=“http://politics.suntimes.com/article/springfield/state-rep-candidate-voted-illinois-and-wisconsin/mon-09222014-643pm”>http://politics.suntimes.com/article/springfield/state-rep-candidate-voted-illinois-and-wisconsin/mon-09222014-643pm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>“There is no “discrimination.” All Maine residents are treated the same - if you want a driver’s license, it must be a Maine license. If you want to own a car in Maine, it must be registered in Maine. This is common practice across the country.”</p>

<p>Bull. There are millions of college students all over the country who go to colleges OOS and do not get a license or register their cars in the state where they go to college. </p>

<p>This is the ACLU’s response regarding OOS voting in Maine. </p>

<p><a href=“http://bangordailynews.com/2012/10/15/opinion/college-students-you-cannot-be-denied-your-vote/”>http://bangordailynews.com/2012/10/15/opinion/college-students-you-cannot-be-denied-your-vote/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>If your panties are all in a twist and you think my son or other OOS students are voting ineligibly, file a complaint with your Election Board or the SoS. </p>

<p>"You do understand that in order to vote in a state, you need to be a legal resident of that state, right? And that a state can make laws, applied equally to all of its residents (no discrimination, see?), that set out the residency requirements? "</p>

<p>It’s not applied equally since OOS students who don’t drive and don’t have a car can vote. You cannot say that drivers are in a different class than non drivers for the purposes of voting. </p>

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<p>They don’t need to - unless they want to claim residency in the state they go to school in, which is a requirement if you want to register to vote in the state. I assume that you live in New York, based on your previous posts. Guess what? New York state requires those who move to New York and become a resident to turn in their driver’s license from their previous state of residence and get a New York driver’s license within 30 days of moving to New York.</p>

<p><a href=“http://dmv.ny.gov/org/driver-license/exchange-out-state-driver-license”>http://dmv.ny.gov/org/driver-license/exchange-out-state-driver-license&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>An out-of-state student in New York is exempt from this requirement as long as they remain a legal resident of their home state, but I bet if that out-of-state student wanted to become a resident of New York state (which would be necessary in order to vote in New York state), they would be required to get a New York license.</p>

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<p>In that commentary, does Shenna Bellows ever say that the state of Maine can’t require it’s residents to have Maine driver’s licenses if they want to drive? No. Does she ever say that the state of Maine can’t require it’s residents to register a car in Maine, if they have a car in the state? No. But here’s something she does say: “Students have exactly the same rights and obligations under Maine law as all other eligible voters.” Obligations: if you vote in Maine, you are claiming to be a resident of Maine. If you are a resident of Maine, you have the obligation to obtain a Maine driver’s license if you want to drive on public roads, and to register in Maine any car that you have in the state.</p>

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<p>My panties are fine, thank-you-very-much, but I think you might be getting a bit defensive about your son. If you let me know your son’s name and where he is going to school, I will consider your advice. You may PM me if you like. (Just kidding.)</p>

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<p>And out-of-state students who are Maine residents who drive or who have a car can also vote! Drivers are in a different class than non-drivers for the purpose of needing a driver’s license, not for voting. That’s it. You just don’t get it. The driver’s license and car registration requirement are not tied to the act of voting; they are tied to the status as resident of the state and wanting to drive or own a car in the state. Anyone who wants to vote in Maine must be a legal resident of the state. So I guess under your logic, everyone who is a resident of California is discriminated against because they can’t vote in Maine. But there’s a rational basis for that discrimination; no court would rule otherwise. Just like there’s a rational basis for Maine to require its residents to have Maine driver’s licenses if they want to drive - not if they want to vote.</p>

<p>To reiterate: I’m not saying that your son can’t vote in Maine. I’m saying that by the act of voting in Maine (or even registering to vote), he’s claiming Maine residency, and as a Maine resident, he’s legally bound by the same laws as every other Maine resident. Don’t like it? Fine, keep your voter registration back in your home state.</p>

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<p>Nope. He is going to vote in Maine this November</p>

<p>There is no law in NYS which requires an OOS student at a college in NYS to have get NYS driver’s license and registration their car in NYS to vote in NYS. </p>

<p>“but I bet if that out-of-state student wanted to become a resident of New York state (which would be necessary in order to vote in New York state), they would be required to get a New York license.”</p>

<p>No, they would not. The SCOTUS ruled that students can vote where they go to school. You seem not to understand that. </p>

<p>You can keep arguing this until you are blue in face for all I care but it is unconstitutional to require an OOS student iin Maine to have a Maine driver’s license and car registration to vote. There is a very good reason no one has been charged or prosecuted for voter ineligibility due to having a OOS driver’s license/car reg. because it would be challenged in a heart beat and they would lose and they wouldn’t be able to use it as a fear tactic to keep OOS students from voting in Maine. </p>

<p>My son goes to school in Maine and he can legally vote in Maine. The end. </p>