<p>Therefore, if you want to vote in New York and drive in New York, you must get a New York driver’s license.</p>
<p>Now substitute the word “Maine” for “New York” in the above sentence. Same laws apply.</p>
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<p>OMG. That is not the point that I am arguing against. I fully agree with your second sentence immediately above. Of course students can vote where they go to school.</p>
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<p>Yup, he can legally vote in Maine, but he can’t legally keep his New York driver’s license or New York car registration for a car that he has in Maine.</p>
<p>OK, let’s go back to square one. You’ve said that your son has been registered to vote in Maine for several years and that he intends to vote in Maine in November. This needs just a simple “yes” or “no” answer:</p>
<p>Is your son a legal resident of the state of Maine?</p>
<p>Thousands, maybe, but “millions”? No way. (yes, I know small nit.) </p>
<p>btw: Virginia requires college students to establish “domicile” to vote.</p>
<p>Emily, the blog you linked to (with approval of the TOSS?), clearly states:</p>
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<p>Thus, as long as a state such as Virginia or Wisconsin treat all citizens/residents equally, they can impose rules for voting. If the rule requires an ID, SCOTUS has allowed.</p>
<p>“Therefore, if you want to vote in New York and drive in New York, you must get a New York driver’s license.”</p>
<p>No. From your own link. </p>
<p>Residency:</p>
<p>“At School. Students can establish residency in New York if they have a present intention to remain at their New York school address for the time being, and they intend to make it their principal home.[9] Any other interpretation of the residency laws is unconstitutional.”</p>
<p>They do not need a NYS driver’s license or need to register their cars in NYS to be eligible to vote in NYS. The can have a driver’s license/car registration issued in any state and be eligible to vote here. </p>
<p>"OK, let’s go back to square one. You’ve said that your son has been registered to vote in Maine for several years and that he intends to vote in Maine in November. This needs just a simple “yes” or “no” answer:</p>
<p>Is your son a legal resident of the state of Maine?"</p>
<p>For the purposes of voting, yes he is. SCOTUS has ruled a student has the constitutional right to vote where they go to school. </p>
<p>That is why he can vote in Maine but not be considered a legal resident of Maine and get in-state tuition. </p>
<p>Right. That’s part of the explanation that in order to register to vote in New York, you must be a resident of New York. Even if you’re a student from out of state. Here’s the actual New York election law:</p>
<p>*New York Election Law
Section 5-210(5)(g)</p>
<p>Notice that the applicant must be a citizen of the United States, is or will be at least eighteen years old not later than December thirty-first of the calendar year in which he or she registers and a resident of the county or city to which application is made.*</p>
<p>The driver’s license and car registration thing are not voting requirements; they are residency requirements. You need to go back and look at the logic sequence in my last post.</p>
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<p>Maybe this is where you are confused. You can not be a legal resident of one state “for the purposes of voting” and at the same time be a legal resident of another state for a different purpose (like holding a driver’s license). You can only be a legal resident of one state at a time, and it’s all or nothing. If your son is a legal resident of Maine for the purposes of voting, than he’s a legal resident of Maine for everything. And Maine law (like New York law, and most likely every other state) requires Maine residents who want to drive to have a Maine issued driver’s license.</p>
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<p>I’ve already told you that legal residency and eligibility for in-state tuition are not the same thing. A legal resident of Maine will not necessarily qualify for in-state tuition, depending on the circumstances.</p>
<p>“The driver’s license and car registration thing are not voting requirements; they are residency requirements. You need to go back and look at the logic sequence in my last post.”</p>
<p>No. If you are an OOS student attending school in NYS, you are not considered a permanent resident (only permanent resident’s need a NYS DL/Car registration.) However, you are still eligible to vote in NYS. It is their Constitutional right to do so where they go to school. </p>
<p>“Maybe this is where you are confused. You can not be a legal resident of one state “for the purposes of voting” and at the same time be a legal resident of another state for a different purpose (like holding a driver’s license). You can only be a legal resident of one state at a time, and it’s all or nothing. If your son is a legal resident of Maine for the purposes of voting, than he’s a legal resident of Maine for everything. And Maine law (like New York law, and most likely every other state) requires Maine residents who want to drive to have a Maine issued driver’s license.”</p>
<p>So fine, he is not a “legal” resident of Maine but he is still eligible to vote their because, once again, SCOTUS ruled students can vote where they go to school. And he goes to school in Maine. </p>
<p>"Definition of a Resident. If you have a driver license or a vehicle registration from another state, you must get a driver license or vehicle registration from NYS within 30 days after you become a resident of NYS. Section 250 (5) of the Vehicle and Traffic Law defines the term “resident.” The law defines a resident as a person who lives in NYS with the intent to make NYS a “fixed and permanent” place to live. To live in a house, a home, an apartment, a room or other similar place in NYS for 90 days is considered “presumptive evidence” that you are a resident of NYS. A police officer can use this evidence as the reason to issue a traffic ticket if you drive in NYS without a driver license or vehicle registration issued by NYS.</p>
<p>A judge considers the law and the evidence of your intent and decides if you are a resident of NYS. For example, if you pay taxes or your children attend school in another state, a judge considers these facts to decide if your intent is to make NYS a “fixed and permanent” residence. The DMV will not decide if you are a resident of NYS, if you must get a NYS driver license, or if you must register your vehicle in NYS.</p>
<p>Quite correct, unless the out-of-state student takes some kind of affirmative action to become a legal resident of New York. Like register to vote.</p>
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<p>An out-of-state student who is not a legal resident of New York (remember, those terms do not mean the same thing) is not eligible to vote in New York. New York election law is very clear on this.</p>
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<p>Wrong. SCOTUS said that a student from out of state could not be prevented from declaring the state in which he goes to school as his state of legal residence, which would then allow him to register to vote. So students can vote where they go to school, which is something that we both agree on, but in order to do so they must make the state in which they are registering to vote their state of legal residence. For everything. I have provided links for you that make this abundantly clear. And yet you continue to stick your head in the sand.</p>
<p>When your son registered to vote in Maine (as is his constitutional right), he declared himself to be a legal resident of Maine. For everything. Even though he became a legal resident of Maine, he was not eligible for in-state tuition because he didn’t meet the requirements:</p>
<p>“If the rule requires an ID, SCOTUS has allowed.”</p>
<p>My son provided the necessary ID required be the State of Maine when he registered to vote in Maine. One does not need to show ID at the polls when you go to vote. </p>
<p>“The Supreme Court ruled over 30 years ago that students cannot be held to a different residency standard than other people within the state.”</p>
<p>There is no requirement that one must have a Maine driver’s license and car registration to be considered a resident of Maine. You can be a resident without either of those things. Students who don’t have a driver’s license or a car are considered eligible to vote simply because they go to school in Maine. You cannot have a different rule simply because of the fact you drive and own a car </p>
<p>The link doesn’t work for me, but I will repeat what I have previously stated:</p>
<p>A student from out of state must normally take some kind of affirmative action to become a legal resident of the state in which they are attending school. Like register to vote. This is the right upheld by SCOTUS. Registering to vote would be a major consideration in whether the person is making the state a " fixed and permanent residence," as you quote above. The student is giving up the right to vote in the state they resided in prior to starting school and is instead declaring that it’s more important for them to vote in the state where they are attending school.</p>
<p>Yes, thankfully. Oh, and I hope you realize that even though your son is now a legal Maine resident, he’s not a “real Mainer.” For that, you have to be born in Maine. (And no, I’m not a real Mainer either.)</p>
<p>Absolutely, and I don’t think anyone in this thread has claimed otherwise.</p>
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<p>No. Students for whom Maine is their state of legal residence are eligible to vote in Maine. For a student who comes to Maine for school from out of state, voting in Maine is not automatic. They first have to make Maine their state of legal residence.</p>
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<p>Wanna bet? If you drive, you need to have a driver’s license. If you don’t drive, you don’t need to have a driver’s license. See? Different rule, simply because of the fact that you drive.</p>
<p>“A student from out of state must normally take some kind of affirmative action to become a legal resident of the state in which they are attending school. Like register to vote. This is the right upheld by SCOTUS. Registering to vote would be a major consideration in whether the person is making the state a " fixed and permanent residence,” as you quote above. The student is giving up the right to vote in the state they resided in prior to starting school and is instead declaring that it’s more important for them to vote in the state where they are attending school."</p>
<p>No, voting where you go to school is not making or declaring a “fixed and permanent residence,” </p>
<p>Residency:</p>
<p>“At School. Students can establish residency in New York if they have a present intention to remain at their New York school address for the time being, and they intend to make it their principal home.[9] Any other interpretation of the residency laws is unconstitutional.”</p>
<p>A student can vote where they go to school as it is where they are living, “for the time being.” Meaning, this is where they will be living for the years they are attending college. Nothing more. It is precisely for that reason they are not considered residents for purposes of tuition. </p>
<p>While my son is in school in Maine he registered to vote there. He has given up his right to vote in NY. He has not given up the right to have a NYS driver’s license or car registration (which actually is in my name.) </p>
<p>When he is no longer a student he will do whatever is necessary to become a resident where he is living. </p>
<p>“Yes, thankfully. Oh, and I hope you realize that even though your son is now a legal Maine resident, he’s not a “real Mainer.” For that, you have to be born in Maine. (And no, I’m not a real Mainer either.)”</p>
<p>Yes, we know he is not a real Mainer. My niece is married to a real Mainer. </p>
<p>“They first have to make Maine their state of legal residence.”</p>
<p>All they need to do is show and ID and give an address to register to vote. </p>
<p>“Wanna bet? If you drive, you need to have a driver’s license. If you don’t drive, you don’t need to have a driver’s license. See? Different rule, simply because of the fact that you drive.”</p>
<p>I am talking specifically for the purposes of voting. In the lower courts ruling on voting rights of students, which SCOTUS affirmed, " students cannot be held to a different residency standard than other people within the state." Since one can be a resident and vote without having a driver’s license you cannot have another class of people ruled ineligible because they have a license issued from another state. The fact that my son is a student going to college in Maine is enough proof of his eligibility to vote in Maine, as it is for anyone else in the State of Maine. </p>
<p>This is a ridiculous argument. In the early 80s I voted in Pennsylvania and kept my NJ drivers license. Currently my daughter votes in CT and kept her NY drivers license. I expect my son to register to vote in PA and keep his NY license. Given that none of the three of us had cars with us, seems a no-brainer. </p>
<p>Agreed. And one of the residency standards of Maine (and New York) is that new residents must trade their out of state driver’s license (if they have one) for a Maine (or New York) driver’s license within a certain period of time of becoming a resident. So your son is not being held to a different residency standard - as far as his driver’s license is concerned, he is being held to the same residency standard as “other people within the state.”</p>
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<p>Once again - the driver’s license requirement is not tied to voting eligibility. It is a requirement of residency in the particular state. You son is not “ruled ineligible because [he has] a license issued from another state.” He can vote in Maine. But as a Maine resident with a New York driver’s license, he is in violation of Maine law.</p>
<p>I’m not going to look up the laws of these other states, but I bet they’re similar to Maine and New York as far as a residency requirement for voting and driver’s license requirement for residency. As has clearly been shown in Maine, there are plenty of people (especially college students) who either don’t know or ignore the law, without much consequence. But that doesn’t mean the laws don’t exist.</p>
<p>Ask yourself these questions about the states you mention above:</p>
<p>Do you have to be a resident of the state in order to vote there?</p>
<p>If the answer to that question is “yes” (and it should be):</p>
<p>Can the state set reasonable requirements that its residents, if they want a driver’s license, must only have a driver’s license from that state?</p>
<p>*To register to vote in Pennsylvania, you must:</p>
<p>Have been a U.S. citizen for at least 1 month before the next election.
Be 18 years old by the next election.
Have been a resident of Pennsylvania and the district you wish to vote in for at least 30 days before the next election.*</p>
<p>If your son becomes a resident of Pennsylvania, he must give up his New York driver’s license and get a Pennsylvania driver’s license:</p>
<p>All new residents with out-of-state non-commercial driver’s licenses are required to surrender their valid out-of-state license and obtain a PA Driver’s License within 60 days of establishing Pennsylvania residency.</p>
<p>“Once again - the driver’s license requirement is not tied to voting eligibility. It is a requirement of residency in the particular state. You son is not “ruled ineligible because [he has] a license issued from another state.” He can vote in Maine. But as a Maine resident with a New York driver’s license, he is in violation of Maine law.”</p>
<p>So, where are all the prosecutions? I’ll wait. </p>
<p>Also, why did the SoS, in 2011, not prosecute the students who were sent the threatening letters who refused to comply? </p>
<p>And once again, OOS students in NYS do not have to fulfill all the residency requirements that permanent residents must. </p>
<p>Look, all I’m saying is that he’s violating the law. His conscious (and yours) will dictate what happens next. Apparently, Maine doesn’t think that its scarce law enforcement resources are best spent on tracking down Maine residents who have failed to comply with the driver’s license requirement. Also, the whole thing became politicized several years ago when the state Republican party brought the issue to light (for patently obvious political reasons). There isn’t an appetite in Maine right now to rehash this.</p>
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<p>Probably because of the political backlash. See above.</p>
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<p>If they want to register to vote in New York, yes they do. You’re mixing terms here, so I’ll assume that when you say “permanent resident” you mean the same thing as “legal resident.” As I’ve shown you previously, a student from out of state who is going to school in New York can register to vote in New York, but becoming a legal resident of New York is a requirement of registering to vote. And once an out of state student becomes a legal resident of New York, he/she is obligated to fulfill the requirements imposed on all other legal residents of New York (see? everyone is treated the same).</p>
<p>I really don’t know why people act like getting an ID is some insurmountable challenge. Geez, if someone can’t figure that out I’m not at all sure I want them voting. For whoever.</p>
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